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 Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra

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Fou-Lu
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PostSubject: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Mon 01 Sep 2008, 1:17 pm

The purpose of this topic is to discuss and debate things that anyone creating something for Valis such as a game, a fanfic whatever would very much need to know.

I'll start by offering my own theories. I stress that I don't consider any of this fact. I've simply done some deductions based on what I feel to be the intentions. Additionally I've compiled materials and research from various sources such as websites, forums ectra.

Alright let's start off with races.

Dreamland people: human like for the most part some may have some non human features but nothing extreme. Example Valia and her court had no pupils. This includes the people of Vacanti as I've deduced that Vacanti is a nieghboring country to Castle Vanity and whatnot.

Former residents of the Spirit Realm: Cham's people for the most part fall into three catagories. First Cham and her direct race seem to have slight animal like features or major animal like features. Fangs, pointed and or furry ears. Some even have more animal features such as tails or animal heads.

Next we have the blue skins, They seem to be higher up in the hierachy, alot of them wear heavy armor and such. Possibly some bio mechanical enhancements here and there.

Lastly we have the "animals" of spirit realm some of which may or may not have crossed over to dreamworld with the rest of Cham's people. Generally less intelligent creatures with less human like features. May have tentacles, less or more eyes ectra ectra. Varying in size, shape, and mass.

Former members of Gallagher's armies: We can assume there are some survivors possibly they chose Asfal's side in the last war or whatnot. Possibly they simply have no where to go. Generally speaking this race is identical to the Spirit Realm people. The exception to this is Medius who is basicly a human in a bio mechanical suit. She could perhaps not even be a part of Gallagher's race however. The rest pretty much fit into the normal aspects.
This leads me to believe they are likely ancestors of the Spirit Realm. Regaldless of what english text leads us to believe.

Any debate on this?

New state of dreamland

We basicly have three different races that don't exactly get along all under the same ruler (Valna). These races are, the survivors of the Red Moon, The survivors of Spirit Realm, the people of dreamworld which includes their former enemies from Vacanti.

I would call this a proverbial "powder keg" perfect for a new conflict.

The New Moon

This one I'm a bit iffy on. At the end of Valis 4 there appear to be two moons floating in the sky. The new purified red moon that's turned white and the original moon we all know of that floats over the human world.
Super Valis 4 clearly states this to be a new moon and that Lena's next adventure will revolve around this moon.

Is this in fact the same moon that always was there? It turned red and suddenly was able to support life somehow? In this case the now purified version of this might also be able to support life.

Or is it a new moon sitting side by side with the original moon?

This particular part of the debate is very important for my own work.
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evilReiko
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Tue 02 Sep 2008, 10:09 am

oh man that's gonna be great happy eyes

I will copy the points that everyone agrees to consider them as facts about Valis Chu

Quote :
Dreamland people: human like for the most part some may have some non human features but nothing extreme. Example Valia and her court had no pupils. This includes the people of Vacanti as I've deduced that Vacanti is a nieghboring country to Castle Vanity and whatnot.

so maybe we can say Dreamland is the world, Vecanti is a city/capital in Dreamland, and Castle Vanity the rulers place in Vecanti chu

Quote :
Former members of Gallagher's armies: We can assume there are some survivors possibly they chose Asfal's side in the last war or whatnot. Possibly they simply have no where to go. Generally speaking this race is identical to the Spirit Realm people. The exception to this is Medius who is basicly a human in a bio mechanical suit. She could perhaps not even be a part of Gallagher's race however. The rest pretty much fit into the normal aspects.
This leads me to believe they are likely ancestors of the Spirit Realm. Regaldless of what english text leads us to believe.

about Medius, maybe she's actually not from the Red Moon itself, maybe Ghallagher just summoned her, like Rogles when summoned Reiko chu ? that's in the possibility right?

about this world itself, I believe Gallagher's army is completely from another world, as we know it, the Red Moon, since the Dark World doesn't exist anymore

Quote :
We basicly have three different races that don't exactly get along all under the same ruler (Valna). These races are, the survivors of the Red Moon, The survivors of Spirit Realm, the people of dreamworld which includes their former enemies from Vacanti.

I don't believe there are suvivors from Red Moon after Valis Maidens defeated Gallagher's army meh because they were completely against all other worlds, unlike the dark world people (in Valis 3) when they wanted to join Dreamland by some way..



about the Red Moon, I don't have much of ideas right now, but if something came to my mind, I will share it happy



BTW, I've been confused for along time about the Realm world and the spirit world wtf

the Realm World = The Dark World? scratch
and the spirit world = the humans world? scratch
or is it reversed?
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Fou-Lu
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Tue 02 Sep 2008, 11:50 am

Quote :
so maybe we can say Dreamland is the world, Vecanti is a city/capital in Dreamland, and Castle Vanity the rulers place in Vecanti
Yes the main point is that it's somewhat unlikely that the people of Vecanti are completely loyal to Valna all things considered. I mean Yuko did kill their ruler after all.

Quote :
about Medius, maybe she's actually not from the Red Moon itself, maybe Ghallagher just summoned her, like Rogles when summoned Reiko ?
If so he probally summoned her centuries ago. Another possiblity is that she was a human and is the one to revive the crystal pillar. Killing this idea is the conversation she has with Asfal if you choose him to fight her. They definitely know each other and she is definitely not fond of him.

Quote :
about this world itself, I believe Gallagher's army is completely from another world, as we know it, the Red Moon, since the Dark World doesn't exist anymore
I would agree that's it's completely possible that your right. Still that would make the obvoius similarities in social structure just a coicendence. Personally I find it cooler to think of them as the ancestors of the Spirit World people. But still maybe your right.

Quote :
I don't believe there are suvivors from Red Moon after Valis Maidens defeated Gallagher's army because they were completely against all other worlds,
Yet Asfal is still alive and it's not unthinkable that if anyone survived they wouldn't return to their king is it?
Quote :
unlike the dark world people (in Valis 3) when they wanted to join Dreamland by some way..
As I understand it about Valis 3 Glames/Ramses plan was to take over dreamland. The same plan that Rogles had. I don't think he ever intended to join them. They choose to join with the people of Dreamland purely because they had the choice between that and extinction at the end of Valis 3. That's my theory anyways.

Quote :
about the Red Moon, I don't have much of ideas right now, but if something came to my mind, I will share it
That's good, right now I've basicly established we have a moon that supports life unless someone shoots that down. The real question is how many moons are up there and which worlds can they be seen from?

My current thinking is there are two and that the original can only be seen from the human world. The new moon can be seen from all the worlds as it's litterally hanging right over them. I base this on the fact that I don't see why Amu would be buried in the human world, and we clearly see the moon after her burial. I suppose Lena could have buried Gallagher but that bird sure looks familar. Isn't that Amu's?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KXQ2Z5AtuM
It shows the moon sorta just wave into existance. Then at the end the bird flies up and the moon turns white.
This new moon is either very close or massive in size. You can see it's craters and such from what I assume to be dreamworld. It also appears to be different in color being white rather then grey.

Quote :
BTW, I've been confused for along time about the Realm world and the spirit world

the Realm World = The Dark World?
and the spirit world = the humans world?

Here's how I see the worlds

Dreamland - where most of this takes place Valna, Lena, Cham ectra live there.

Human world - where we live where Yuko was before all this started

Dark/Spirit World - Where Cham used to live it no longer exists

Sutherland - another world directly under Valhalla the land of the gods. We have very little information on this land or it's people. But they appear to be monks who worship the gods.

Valhalla - Where the gods live

White Moon - empty world waiting to be inhabited

That's how I see it anyways.
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iannafei
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Fri 05 Sep 2008, 1:20 am

Here is some of my takes on things:

Quote :
Dreamland people: human like for the most part some may have some non human features but nothing extreme. Example Valia and her court had no pupils. This includes the people of Vacanti as I've deduced that Vacanti is a nieghboring country to Castle Vanity and whatnot.

Well, strange thing is, Valna and Yuko have normal eyes in comparison to their mother (Valia). Lena and Amu have regular eyes also. It could be possible that maybe some of the Dreamlanders are descendents of humans that had somehow wandered into the realm? It could be possible that Yuko and Valna's dad is one of these type of peoples.


Quote :
Quote :
about this world itself, I believe Gallagher's army is completely from another world, as we know it, the Red Moon, since the Dark World doesn't exist anymore


I would agree that's it's completely possible that your right. Still that would make the obvoius similarities in social structure just a coicendence. Personally I find it cooler to think of them as the ancestors of the Spirit World people. But still maybe your right.

My theory is the Gallagher and his crew aren't exactly natives of the Red Moon, but actually Exiles. Exiles from where? It is quite possible they could have been from the Dark World (may be the other worlds as well?), but someone (the gods, perhaps?) sent them to the Red Moon due to certain transgressions.

Quote :
My current thinking is there are two and that the original can only be seen from the human world. The new moon can be seen from all the worlds as it's litterally hanging right over them. I base this on the fact that I don't see why Amu would be buried in the human world, and we clearly see the moon after her burial. I suppose Lena could have buried Gallagher but that bird sure looks familar. Isn't that Amu's?

I don't think Amu was buried in the Human World or the (formerly) Red Moon, but rather the Dream World.

As far as the Red Moon itself is conserned, I think it was originally was there, it is just that it had been hidden from the other worlds up until the events of Valis 4 (with the summoning of the Crystal Pillar and all). Again, I imagine the reason is to keep the Exiles sealed away from the rest of the Worlds.

Quote :
Yes the main point is that it's somewhat unlikely that the people of Vecanti are completely loyal to Valna all things considered. I mean Yuko did kill their ruler after all.

I'm sure some of the Dark Worldeans would wish to integrate with the Dreamlandian society just for the sake of peace and all. However, others are probably loyalists to the former Dark World Empire, and would either be possibly be planning to rebel against Vanity, or at least living apart from the Dreamlanders.
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Fou-Lu
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Fri 05 Sep 2008, 2:42 pm

Quote :
Well, strange thing is, Valna and Yuko have normal eyes in comparison to their mother (Valia). Lena and Amu have regular eyes also. It could be possible that maybe some of the Dreamlanders are descendents of humans that had somehow wandered into the realm? It could be possible that Yuko and Valna's dad is one of these type of peoples.
I personally think that dreamlanders are basicly humans with strange powers. Valia's eyes could simply be a part of that power and the same with her attendants. I believe the normal folk of Dreamland are pretty human looking. The guys shown in the opening of Valis 4 looked pretty human. Still an interesting theory though. We don't know who their father is and it's never even discussed.
Quote :
As far as the Red Moon itself is conserned, I think it was originally was there, it is just that it had been hidden from the other worlds up until the events of Valis 4 (with the summoning of the Crystal Pillar and all). Again, I imagine the reason is to keep the Exiles sealed away from the rest of the Worlds.
So does this mean you think there are two moons in the human world now? The one that used to be red and the original? Where do you think these moons can be seen from?

Quote :
I'm sure some of the Dark Worldeans would wish to integrate with the Dreamlandian society just for the sake of peace and all. However, others are probably loyalists to the former Dark World Empire, and would either be possibly be planning to rebel against Vanity, or at least living apart from the Dreamlanders.
That's what I think as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Tue 09 Sep 2008, 2:45 pm

I was thinking about the Dark World and how Glames claimed it would be gone forever if he didn't have Valis. I think it was a hoax that never worked (often a desperate attempt to achieve something) because nowhere else in the Valis story (from recollection) was there proof that Dark World was screwed. In my belief, Dark World would still exist because if something was happening to Dark World it would've been indicated (whether known to the heroines or not).

After all, how many times do lead villains fabricate sob stories to trick the hearts of the heroes and heroines?
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iannafei
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Wed 10 Sep 2008, 1:51 am

betaflex1 wrote:
I was thinking about the Dark World and how Glames claimed it would be gone forever if he didn't have Valis. I think it was a hoax that never worked (often a desperate attempt to achieve something) because nowhere else in the Valis story (from recollection) was there proof that Dark World was screwed. In my belief, Dark World would still exist because if something was happening to Dark World it would've been indicated (whether known to the heroines or not).

After all, how many times do lead villains fabricate sob stories to trick the hearts of the heroes and heroines?

True, the game doesn't really show the Dark World being absorbed by a black hole or whatever, but I do think it was definitely in trouble. However, I do also think Glames was basically using that fact as an excuse to invade the other worlds, because he wanted universal domination, blah blah blah. Of course, he wanted the Valis Sword too ('cause he wants TEH POWAH!). I recall he even admits it at one point that he is more interested in acquiring both swords rather than saving the Dark World.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Wed 10 Sep 2008, 2:49 am

iannafei wrote:

True, the game doesn't really show the Dark World being absorbed by a black hole or whatever, but I do think it was definitely in trouble. However, I do also think Glames was basically using that fact as an excuse to invade the other worlds, because he wanted universal domination, blah blah blah. Of course, he wanted the Valis Sword too ('cause he wants TEH POWAH!). I recall he even admits it at one point that he is more interested in acquiring both swords rather than saving the Dark World.

Knowing the nature of Rogles and Glames, both who sought conquest, the despair of Dark World could be the chaos that resides in the realm that Glames wanted the power of Valis to subdue it (and all of existence) to his iron fist. Of course, not all Dark World creatures seek conquest, but it could be a parallel to Dream World that is in a constant state of turmoil. In turn, this could be a huge threat to anyone that dares to even walk such a realm.

In that case, Dark World is already doomed, but doomed because it would not see peace (if not later, than never).
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Wed 10 Sep 2008, 8:45 pm

As I understand it Ramses incured the wrath of gods or something like that and the gods in punishment decided to disintegrate the Spirit Realm slowly. Really the gods sure seem to be petty in Valis. Let's destory an entire realm because their leader is a jerk eh
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Thu 11 Sep 2008, 2:01 am

Fou-Lu wrote:
As I understand it Ramses incured the wrath of gods or something like that and the gods in punishment decided to disintegrate the Spirit Realm slowly. Really the gods sure seem to be petty in Valis. Let's destory an entire realm because their leader is a jerk eh
Hm... I must've missed that part. Where was it pointed out? o_O
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 12:48 pm

ok guys, I agree with most of what you said, but something just pinged in my mind:

what about Dreamland people? Are all of them females?? Suspect because this is what I noticed in Valis 2, Valia and her lieutenants are all females meh
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Sat 13 Sep 2008, 1:43 am

It's possible that Castle Vanity consists of an all female court yes. Another possiblity is that it originally did but no longer does due to the fact that survivors of multiple wars now live in dreamland, Rogles/ Megas people and spirit realm people.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion: The world of Valis it's people ectra   Sat 13 Sep 2008, 5:08 pm

very logical Very Happy
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