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 Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!

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Do you praise/like or blame/hate Valis manga by ZOL?
praise!
14%
 14% [ 2 ]
blame!
86%
 86% [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 14
 

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evilReiko
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PostSubject: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sun 02 Aug 2009, 7:04 am

I found this by mistake just now in wikipedia.org, saying about Valis Manga (refering to ZOL's comic):


A Manga series for Valis Was released in 2008 by Kill Time Communications and features on the pseudo-hentai manga magazine Comic Valkyrie. Despite that the manga does contain Nudity and is classified as a Hentai Manga, most fans praise the manga.


vote as "praise" if you would like to revive Valis as hentai in the future, or as "blame" to revive Valis as we know it!


original text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valis_(series)


EDIT: btw, by default each fan here is considered as "praising" ZOL's comic, since it's said in wikipedia, so hope all of us prove the opposite


Last edited by evilReiko on Sun 02 Aug 2009, 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sun 02 Aug 2009, 3:16 pm

Nay! Nay I say! I'm willing to bet the so called "Valis fans" that praise the ZOL comic, are probably not even really Valis fans at all, just fans of naughty stuff. It's a pity really, that men like this stuff. I said it before, and I'll say it again, true I like hot looking women, I draw the line at making them nude. Bad enough we get that in movies now a days, we don't need it to spread anymore. Of course I tend to draw the line when a girl's/woman's outfit gets a bit to skimpy. Like Ivy's main outfit from Soul Calibur, nasty! I tend to favor more of the one piece suits, that don't make certain parts stick out, and an example would be this.

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif?t=1249240295
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sun 02 Aug 2009, 7:20 pm

evilReiko wrote:
I found this by mistake just now in wikipedia.org, saying about Valis Manga (refering to ZOL's comic):


A Manga series for Valis Was released in 2008 by Kill Time Communications and features on the pseudo-hentai manga magazine Comic Valkyrie. Despite that the manga does contain Nudity and is classified as a Hentai Manga, most fans praise the manga.


vote as "praise" if you would like to revive Valis as hentai in the future, or as "blame" to revive Valis as we know it!


original text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valis_(series)


EDIT: btw, by default each fan here is considered as "praising" ZOL's comic, since it's said in wikipedia, so hope all of us prove the opposite

I edited the Wikipedia article just now because it didn't make sense like that. Remember that anyone can edit Wikipedia.
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sun 02 Aug 2009, 7:45 pm

Wikipedia says much things, most of they are trash... ugh
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The Red Spectra
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Tue 04 Aug 2009, 12:45 pm

evilReiko wrote:
A Manga series for Valis Was released in 2008 by Kill Time Communications and features on the pseudo-hentai manga magazine Comic Valkyrie. Despite that the manga does contain Nudity and is classified as a Hentai Manga, most fans praise the manga.

None of those fans are here...
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evilReiko
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Wed 05 Aug 2009, 2:34 am

evilReiko wrote:
A Manga series for Valis Was released in 2008 by Kill Time Communications and features on the pseudo-hentai manga magazine Comic Valkyrie. Despite that the manga does contain Nudity and is classified as a Hentai Manga, most fans praise the manga.
The Red Spectra wrote:
None of those fans are here...

I doubt calling those as "fans"! mad

doctorx0079 wrote:
I edited the Wikipedia article just now because it didn't make sense like that. Remember that anyone can edit Wikipedia.

Thanx doctorx0079 for editing that happy

honestly, I got so pissed off when I read that text in Wikipedia. It's true that fans here say that ZOL's comic looks really nice (in terms of artwork), but not praising it or encouraging for more mad
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Thu 06 Aug 2009, 11:14 am

I'm also balaming this manga...
I think it was a good attempt to bring back the series... as it was originally planned, after all, it is Yuko of Valis 1 and Reiko story again...
but the problem, is they added nudity to it...
I understand japanese people find this normal.. I mean, women's body are something natural and normal...
if they fight wearing a mini skirt, or bikini, of course we will see them in sexy or ecchi situations..

if the clothes get ripped... then we will see them naked, and it should be normal anyway... Rolling Eyes

the problem comes, when it is made NOT TO BE normal... fear
this comic was drawn like that, to get attention of non valis fans...
and perverts... sad

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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Wed 12 Aug 2009, 9:46 pm

First of all, when it said "most fans praise the manga" let's not forget that the really deplorable stuff (to fans) didn't happen until volume 2. Most of the documented fan's reaction was for the first few issues and you'll all remember I was praising it myself, it started out as a pretty darn good adaption of Valis. I'll be the first to admit it's gone to hell since then, but I still don't condemn all of it.

And just to clarify, I don't consider nudity by itself to be sexual or degrading- A sexual/degrading scene can happen with or without nudity. We all remember Valis as a story of action, adventure, heroism, etc... sexual situations are rather awkward in those, and I certainly don't think they belong in Valis. So having said that, if we had Yuko bathing in a pond, fully uncensored goodies and everything, I personally wouldn't have a problem with it. But this bullshit with Aizard has got to go. I think that's what Soldier was trying to say about normality.


And if I may babble a little bit about the manga-

I think the manga started out good. The art was great and ZOL was getting it right; the story was accurate and Yuko actually fought monsters and stuff. I was really excited about it, thinking I was in for a good old action adventure comic. But by volume 2 it started taking the wrong direction.

There seems to be (to me) a misogynist subgenre of hentai. Wherein you take some heroine who is supposedly adept at fighting and defending herself, and you rape or otherwise torture the hell out of her, and the comic becomes little more than a showcase of the girl suffering, all droopy-eyed and hopeless. That's one reason I've never been attracted to hentai, especially when it involves characters I like.

The Valis manga eventually becomes a bimonthly digest of Yuko suffering in some form or another, which I can tolerate to a point, but the sexual situation with the demons, and later with Aizard, kills it. (I knew he was going to ruin everything.) Sure, it was all "Almost getting raped, but then saved by _____" ...but still, Valis fans do not enjoy watching Yuko being degraded that way and as I mentioned above, doesn't belong in Valis.

Even at the end of volume 2 it seems the action picks back up, but it takes place in modern Tokyo, which kind of ruins it for me. And he's introducing new characters, who is that ugly chick with the eyepatch? Yuko gets launched into outer space, then she gets wings, Nizetti wandering around Tokyo in a suit, and... what game was this based off again?
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Wed 12 Aug 2009, 10:29 pm

"Hey look at me, I'm Zol! I write Valis story! I make good art and action! I'm bored now! I'll do what Telent did, make the manga into a hentai! And I'll get more money from" NAH TPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!

(Sylvester style gumbling.) Muuuuhhhh that frazle bazle, patoraula!
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Thu 13 Aug 2009, 8:21 pm

the first page of volume 1 is enough to tell the artist's intent tired I knew it was turning into hentai/ecchi (or whatever sexual-content)

if it was 1 or 2 pictures (or scenes), we can try to ignore it, but it's ZOL's intent to make the comic as hentai-like... it's none-sense sad

and to publish the comic in Valkyria-comics is even a bigger clue why it's turning into hentai, don't you agree meh (I mean, if it wasn't hentai, ZOL's comic won't be published in that magazine lol + ugh )
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HeromanX
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sun 30 Aug 2009, 11:51 pm

I'll make my stance on this crisp, clear, and concise because I think it's a "taboo" topic to any fans. So I'm taking my time to say it now because I'll get few other chances to make it so clear.

My stance is that if the main focus of the manga is story-driven, there is no reason to despise it. This is how I look at ALL hentai in general, and it applies similarly to Valis. If there is a story, and the nudity and sexual content is competently integral in said story, it is indeed a good thing for it to exist. Yes, perverts will get their hands on it for their purposes. Should we care? No, we shouldn't. They're not fans, they're just another doujin collector who happened upon this series.

That said, on the forbidden topic of Valis X, I've not played or seen videos of it to determine that it's truly more fan service than it is story-driven. However, marketed as a hentai game, I know what to expect. I'll still purchase and play it just to say I not only own the game, but have played it through and could tell you just how much it disgraces its predecessors. That alone is reason enough, for me, to "buy in" something so despicable.

Again (as things haven't changed a whole lot in the few months I've been doing MMOs in between anime conventions), I haven't really looked at many of the scans for the manga. I have no idea whether it's fan service or plot device. I plan to find out for myself when I import them at some point in time.

I'd also like to point out that in the X68k and PC-88 versions of Valis II, you see Yuko's breasts extremely clearly during the cutscene where Megas kills Valia. It was implied that she was completely nude - a sign of humiliation and weakness. Some might say it'd qualify to be a hentai on that alone. I would disagree, but nonetheless I digress. The point is that it's already been done within the storyline (and I would say canonically so). To say it doesn't belong would be to say that the best versions of Valis II shouldn't have existed.

So...ALL THAT said, good or bad, it's up to you to be the judge. Not everything Valis is going to be good, not everything is going to be bad. I've noticed most of you back up your hatred with valid reasoning, just reasoning I disagree with, but nevertheless opinions are very well respected around here. And for that, I'll sign off on this post and let you continue on your rants about how Valis is turning hentai despite evidence on deviantArt and my own contributing efforts prove otherwise. :3 (Yeah, about those conventions...)
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Mon 31 Aug 2009, 1:17 pm

HeromanX wrote:
:3 (Yeah, about those conventions...)

Yes, what about the conventions??
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HeromanX
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Thu 03 Sep 2009, 2:19 pm

doctorx0079 wrote:
HeromanX wrote:
:3 (Yeah, about those conventions...)

Yes, what about the conventions??

I've submitted a panel to the programming head for the con I'm working for. Aaaaannnnd... *drum roll* ...it's a Valis panel! =D Has yet to be accepted, but I can talk to the guy personally to try and fit it in somewhere. We're working towards a 24-hour convention, and it's looking to be pretty full. Smile

If the panel's accepted, I'll try to find someone to record it for us. I'm simply hoping I can get a daytime slot for it so more people can and will attend. ^^;
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Mon 07 Sep 2009, 7:39 pm

HeromanX wrote:
doctorx0079 wrote:
HeromanX wrote:
:3 (Yeah, about those conventions...)

Yes, what about the conventions??

I've submitted a panel to the programming head for the con I'm working for. Aaaaannnnd... *drum roll* ...it's a Valis panel! =D Has yet to be accepted, but I can talk to the guy personally to try and fit it in somewhere. We're working towards a 24-hour convention, and it's looking to be pretty full. Smile

If the panel's accepted, I'll try to find someone to record it for us. I'm simply hoping I can get a daytime slot for it so more people can and will attend. ^^;

WHICH STATE??
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Mon 07 Sep 2009, 10:08 pm

doctorx0079 wrote:
HeromanX wrote:
doctorx0079 wrote:
HeromanX wrote:
:3 (Yeah, about those conventions...)

Yes, what about the conventions??

I've submitted a panel to the programming head for the con I'm working for. Aaaaannnnd... *drum roll* ...it's a Valis panel! =D Has yet to be accepted, but I can talk to the guy personally to try and fit it in somewhere. We're working towards a 24-hour convention, and it's looking to be pretty full. Smile

If the panel's accepted, I'll try to find someone to record it for us. I'm simply hoping I can get a daytime slot for it so more people can and will attend. ^^;

WHICH STATE??

Anime Nebraskon. I haven't heard anything about it and things seem kinda grim for the panel to be included. There's apparently only one slot open in the schedule, but it's one I wanted. I hope I'll get it. Check the convention topic in the General section for more details.

Even if my panel doesn't go through, you should still come to the con. Lol It'll be a blast, and more Valis Soldiers are needed to promote Valis throughout the community! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Mon 28 Sep 2009, 4:36 am

Speaking about which, is it still worth it to get the manga or would I be better not to support the manga along with Valis X? Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Mon 28 Sep 2009, 12:37 pm

My guess, judging from the responses on this thread, is that it would not be wise to support ZOL. I personally don't care about supporting a company (despite the fact that that's what I'm doing), I just want the product. So if you're looking to expand your collection of everything Valis, you definitely need to pick this up. Otherwise, leave it alone. =P
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Tue 29 Sep 2009, 4:07 am

XAhsoYuko wrote:
Speaking about which, is it still worth it to get the manga or would I be better not to support the manga along with Valis X? Crying or Very sad

it's upto you happy
it's not like we will hate you if you buy it lol

the main idea is:

buying it (to add it to your Valis collections) = indirectly => encouraging more official Valis hentai (even if you don't mean to encourage the hentai, but that's what the sellers/distributors understand)

not buying it = indirectly => stopping the hentai, and hoping of a real Valis game
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Tue 06 Oct 2009, 12:29 am

I know its late but I have just got my vol.1 hardcopy last week...
I wouldn't say I hate it but definitely I won't say its good...its a nice thing to see Valis still appear with new stuff nowadays, which makes me feel good, but at the same time the manga is like some radom below average manga, just that they use Valis characters etc.

I didn't look at scans or whatever of vol.2, but with the 2 pages of sneak preview at the back of the book, I guess I really should reconsider getting it or not even if someday I see it on the shelves...
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Wed 24 Feb 2010, 2:11 pm

evilReiko wrote:
I found this by mistake just now in wikipedia.org, saying about Valis Manga (refering to ZOL's comic):


A Manga series for Valis Was released in 2008 by Kill Time Communications and features on the pseudo-hentai manga magazine Comic Valkyrie. Despite that the manga does contain Nudity and is classified as a Hentai Manga, most fans praise the manga.


vote as "praise" if you would like to revive Valis as hentai in the future, or as "blame" to revive Valis as we know it!

original text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valis_(series)


EDIT: btw, by default each fan here is considered as "praising" ZOL's comic, since it's said in wikipedia, so hope all of us prove the opposite

I voted blame. Valis needs to come back the way as we know it cheers and not as the black eye known as Valis X was Evil or Very Mad .
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sat 09 Apr 2011, 12:13 am


Quote :
A Manga series for Valis Was released in 2008 by Kill Time Communications and features on the pseudo-hentai manga magazine Comic Valkyrie. Despite that the manga does contain Nudity and is classified as a Hentai Manga, most fans praise the manga.
I must react to that.

Comic Valkyrie is'nt an hentai magazine, It's a seinen magazine only. And the manga was never classified as hentai.
Freezing is published in this magazine and this manga is nearly allages (it's all age in France, where I live)
Ok, the manga Valis contains nudity and many fan service, but, as said, the X68000 version of Valis II also have nudity.
And excuse me but the serie have always played with somes otaku fetish.

Think to all the clothes weared by yuko:

The pretty warrior in mini bikini, seifuku or cute pyjama than any girl older than 12 would wear (for the lolicon). The mobile phone version include nurse and somes other...

In the PCengine version of the first game, there is also many pantyshot when we fight.

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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sat 09 Apr 2011, 12:29 am

Nous sommes au courant, Kraken Laughing

I don't think anyone here is arguing with that. But I think EvilReiko was saying the manga is a bit exaggerated in his opinion.

En passant, ce fil de discussion est un peut vieux, non? Shocked

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sat 09 Apr 2011, 12:38 am

Oh, I have misread, I haven't seen he quoted wiki, I was thinking he said that the manga was in a pseudo hentai magazine.

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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sat 09 Apr 2011, 12:40 am

Welcome to the forums, by the way Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sat 09 Apr 2011, 12:52 am

Thank you!! Oh maybe presentation is obligatory. Tell me if it's the case.

For all the ting about Valis and the Hentai, I planned to play at Valis X with AGTH (a program who translated VN like Valis X), the Hentai seem really bad, but I want to know if the story is good.

I can't just said this game is crap without knowing the story, many hentai game (even with hardcore hentai) are really good games with strong story (Saya no Uta, Moon and Demonbane are good exemple).

If the story is also bad, It will be unforgivable (same thing for Arcus X)
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sat 09 Apr 2011, 1:16 am

I don't think introducing yourself is obligatory, but why not? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Wiki:"..most fans praise the manga"??? WTF!   Sun 10 Apr 2011, 5:45 am

Hi and welcome to Valis forums kraken Smile

1st: Fans in the forums are from different cultures all over the world, not everyone appreciate Hentai or sex-related

2nd: There are different types of fans, there are ones who collect everything related to Valis (including Hentai), and there are ones who collect everything related to Valis except Hentai and sex-related.

By this thread, we don't force members to dislike Hentai or collect them, but we don't allow displaying Hentai and sex-related here
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