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 Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?

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kraken
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PostSubject: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Mon 11 Apr 2011, 1:14 pm

I was wondering, We are all hoping a sequel to Valis.

Why don't we make it?

We are many fan here, I am sure we could combine our talent to create a Valis V.

Some program like The game factory are really easy to use and cancreate every style of 2D game with any programmation. (It's really easy, In one hour, I have create a level of a pong and there is many very good tutorial)

There are all tutorials for plateforme games, 2 playes games, fighting games (if we want to input some combo as into BTA like golden axe of a 2 players vs), cutscene, dialogues and even rpg element (if we we to had some like power up, xp and equipment)

The biggest problem is the creation of the sprites, but by use the same technique used by those who create super street fighter 2 HD on the xbox live. the work will be more easy (and some begginner could work on it).



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ssfsx17
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Mon 11 Apr 2011, 3:08 pm

Cease & Desist from the current owner of the intellectual property, that's why not. Same problem that seems to plague a lot of fan projects these days, such as the Streets of Rage Remake.

However, any game meant to capture that adventurous and heroic spirit of late-80's / early-90's anime, complete with a heroine who is not there just for the sake of looking nice but who can actually do stuff, would definitely be good.
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Shadow Blade
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Mon 11 Apr 2011, 4:30 pm

Even if this was considered a fan made and not a "menace" just like another companies with many fan mades, is so hard to made that things...

-Everybody haves so many ideas and not always all of theyare good, but everyone wants to see their ideas in the project...

-Always will be ideas, but isn't enought, there be who programming, who mades the artwork... who planning (escenes, stages, whatever you want to made)

-Sometimes so much people will be problems... must be organization and discipline, yeah it's a fan made but the organization is the prioritarial one to be succesful.

-People thinks will be easy, quick and for some reason they think the project make it for himself... ERROR, if you wish to involucre in this things, THINK carefully... (Keisuke Nonohara, Isee you)

There's more points to made a project but, I don't want to see like a frustrated or bad person, just prevent another "Yay! Let's make a good project!" and in the end cacelled it.
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Lord Adrian
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Mon 11 Apr 2011, 5:35 pm

If only I could program I'd make a fan made game instead of a still motion cartoon ugh . Sadly it's what ssfsx17 said the company that holds the current copyrights (Sunsoft) would send out a Cease and Desist order and all that time making a fan made game would have gone to waste.


Last edited by Lord Adrian on Mon 11 Apr 2011, 8:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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RayguardKnight (SS7)
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Mon 11 Apr 2011, 5:49 pm

This is not the first time this idea has been brought up, but it's not very feasible for the reasons ShadowBlade mentioned.

As ShadowBlade said, team projects don't often work. I lost count of how many fan "collabs" I've seen go to pot because the creators couldn't agree on the direction or developed personality issues with each other once the project was underway. I think if someone wants to make a Valis or any fangame, they should do as much as possible on their own, then maybe others will follow with small contributions, if they like the concept.

Also, making a fangame is easy. Making a decent one is not. The quality of the game is the difference between making a game that people will play and one that nobody cares about. The quality and originality of the game concept and sprites, as well as quality of the programming are all important to make a fangame stand out. It's easy to make a bloated game with recycled sprites and music, it's not easy to make something original that will make people say "wow, this is what Valis V could have been."

And of course, we have the ridiculous threat from Sunsoft over their copyrights, as already mentioned. You can look at the original statement right here.

I don't think we should let the idea die, of course we could make a similar game with original characters, but again, until someone can really prove it's doable and interesting for all of us, that will not likely happen.

Just my two cents eh
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Shadow Blade
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Mon 11 Apr 2011, 6:41 pm

SuperSailor7 wrote:
Also, making a fangame is easy. Making a decent one is not. The quality of the game is the difference between making a game that people will play and one that nobody cares about. The quality and originality of the game concept and sprites, as well as quality of the programming are all important to make a fangame stand out. It's easy to make a bloated game with recycled sprites and music, it's not easy to make something original that will make people say "wow, this is what Valis V could have been."

Like this one? Hehe, I found it in my Pc and upload it to my DA, if you remember, my friend made it based on my fic XD

Too bad isn't continue, but well... the project itself was cancelled by the points I mentionated in my previous post.
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evilReiko
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Tue 12 Apr 2011, 3:34 am

SuperSailor7 wrote:
This is not the first time this idea has been brought up, but it's not very feasible for the reasons ShadowBlade mentioned.

As ShadowBlade said, team projects don't often work. I lost count of how many fan "collabs" I've seen go to pot because the creators couldn't agree on the direction or developed personality issues with each other once the project was underway. I think if someone wants to make a Valis or any fangame, they should do as much as possible on their own, then maybe others will follow with small contributions, if they like the concept.

Also, making a fangame is easy. Making a decent one is not. The quality of the game is the difference between making a game that people will play and one that nobody cares about. The quality and originality of the game concept and sprites, as well as quality of the programming are all important to make a fangame stand out. It's easy to make a bloated game with recycled sprites and music, it's not easy to make something original that will make people say "wow, this is what Valis V could have been."

And of course, we have the ridiculous threat from Sunsoft over their copyrights, as already mentioned. You can look at the original statement right here.

I don't think we should let the idea die, of course we could make a similar game with original characters, but again, until someone can really prove it's doable and interesting for all of us, that will not likely happen.

Just my two cents eh

SuperSailor7, can you stop reading my mind?
LOL lol You keep saying my comments before I post them lol

Just let me bold a point:
SuperSailor7 wrote:
I think if someone wants to make a Valis or any fangame, they should do as much as possible on their own, then maybe others will follow with small contributions, if they like the concept.
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kraken
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Tue 12 Apr 2011, 8:09 pm

Quote :
Always will be ideas, but isn't enought, there be who programming, who mades the artwork... who planning (escenes, stages, whatever you want to made)
For the progamming, It's why I suggest MMF or TGF, there is nerly no need of programation.

For the rest, with a good planning/organisation, il not so diificult.

the first thing to do is brainstorming.

It's needed to know exactly what we want in the game and is possible to do before beginning the project.
Being too ambitiious will be bad.
Once the Brainstorming finished it's need to see how many person we need for making the game and who will make what.

For the legal question, there is many way to go throught the warning made by sunsoft.

1.Doing the work as doujin and only release it in japan and site like dlsite (the legislation is different in japan for doujin)

2. dont use raw ressouce of the game (Street of rage remake is tolerated because he don't use any raw ressoucre of the original game, every thing is recolored, redraw...), except the name of the character and the game, It an original game.

3.Doing the game for a private audience and only ditribuate it in private message until the game will be "accidentally" released on site like megaupload, rapidshare, hotfile and mediafire.
these site ressource are anonymous way to share files

4.It's not enough, it's possible to change the names of the character.

Valis the Fantasm soldier= Vals the Dream warrior
Yuko=Yuka
Reiko=Reika

If we are doing this, the game will not be related to the Valis series
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RayguardKnight (SS7)
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Tue 12 Apr 2011, 9:34 pm

Here is how I see things:

(1) Games Factory, Game Maker, etc. are easy to use. However, every enemy, object, boss, playable character, etc. has to be programmed individually and bug-tested. It's still quite time-consuming, even though it is easy. Especially since people lead busy lives and therefore will not be able to work full-time on the project.

(2) I absolutely agree with this statement:

Quote :
It's needed to know exactly what we want in the game and is possible to do before beginning the project.

This is essential to avoid conflict later on that could kill the project. It also involves deciding who will and who will not work on the project, because you won't likely get everyone to agree on everything.

In any case, others on this site have already proposed ideas for a fangame, and still discuss them here and there... nothing is stopping you from doing the same. Otherwise, no one will be able to tell you what they think of your ideas heh-heh
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kraken
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Tue 12 Apr 2011, 10:23 pm

Quote :
This is essential to avoid conflict later on that could kill the project. It also involves deciding who will and who will not work on the project, because you won't likely get everyone to agree on everything.

Sure.

For my idea, they depend of how much the tool use to create the game will be mastered.

my first idea is a Valis game with exploration like into the Adventure of link.

You play Yuko who explore the world of the game, encounter with ennemy are BTA fight like in golden axe and dungeons are classic Valis games (with few more exploration maybe).

If TGF or whatever the program we use is really mastered I have other idea but It depend of many other element.

-multiplayer or strikers system with character from other Valis games
-possibility to change the character we play as in Valis IV
-Battle mode like in guardian heroes or Street of rage remake
-Armor to equip who give additional life bar (and special power) and disapears like in Ghoul and ghouts or Ikkitousen PSP for few echii (not hentai)
-sub weapon and magic system like in castlevania
-level up system
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XAhsoYuko
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Wed 13 Apr 2011, 12:30 am

Don't forget the plot! Seriously, what would be the plot anyway?
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Wed 13 Apr 2011, 12:46 am

XAhsoYuko wrote:
Don't forget the plot! Seriously, what would be the plot anyway?

Plot? What's that? heh-heh

/joke
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kraken
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Wed 13 Apr 2011, 8:30 am

For the plot, I am not enough familiar with the Valis universe to create one, So why don't you submit somes ideas.

However, if it's possible to program, I would like keep the only good idea of Valis X, the story from each character point of view with original part for each character.

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RayguardKnight (SS7)
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Wed 13 Apr 2011, 1:17 pm

kraken wrote:
For the plot, I am not enough familiar with the Valis universe to create one, So why don't you submit somes ideas.

However, if it's possible to program, I would like keep the only good idea of Valis X, the story from each character point of view with original part for each character.


A game project needs at least:

1) writer - storyline

2) artist - graphics, cutscenes [or sprite editing -- hopefully not Rolling Eyes]

3) programmer [duh!]

And a better fangame would also need:

4) composer - music direction

Of course, a single person can assume all of these functions.

Now the question is, if someone else will be doing the writing, what part of the work do you plan on contributing?
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kraken
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Wed 13 Apr 2011, 8:40 pm

Quote :

1) writer - storyline

2) artist - graphics, cutscenes [or sprite editing -- hopefully not Rolling Eyes]

3) programmer [duh!]

And a better fangame would also need:

4) composer - music direction

Of course, a single person can assume all of these functions.

You forget some functions:

-A level designer (very important, especially for a platform game)

A director (someone who coordinate every member of the staff do the comunication between them, chose the staff, take the decision about the work of the staff, plan the task to do, sometimes help with some task...)

for having been part of some project, a director is really needed and is a hard work (especially on a internet work).

I think the project need at least :

1 writer
5 artist (1 for cutscene, 2 for sprites and 2 for background art)
1 programmer
1 level designer
1 composer
1 director

one or two artist, composer and programmer can be add, but no more, I think.


For me, I think to be the director, I also can help for some task

I can help on the graphic, I am not good on drawing, but I am good on coloring and editing with tool like photoshop and Illustrator. (I have colored every illustration of a visual novel)

If the game is just an adventure of link-like made with TGF (with no multiplayer, armor to equip or level up), I also can help for programming. (I programmed a visual novel)
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RayguardKnight (SS7)
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Wed 13 Apr 2011, 11:11 pm

Quote :
You forget some functions

I didn't forget anything. I was giving the minimum requirements for making a game. Any of the four team members listed could do level design, any of them could direct, those are skills you can find in anyone. By contrast, programming is not something everyone knows how to do, nor is drawing. It's a big burden for three people, but it's doable, whereas I think a big committed team would be difficult to put together, which is why I gave only minimum requirements.

Quote :
I think the project need at least :

1 writer
5 artist (1 for cutscene, 2 for sprites and 2 for background art)
1 programmer
1 level designer
1 composer
1 director

I doubt you will find 10 people willing to work on any one project on this forum, although I hope I'm wrong heh-heh If you already have contacts from other forums theoretically they could help, though.

Most members here only drop in occasionally, and only a handful of us are on regularly (basically the people who are responding to your threads -- myself, evilReiko, ShadowBlade, LordAdrian, Megaman, etc.)

In addition, there are already propositions for fangames (LordAdrian has one, I had one, Megaman made one a long time ago, and EvilReiko is actually working on his own Valis game). And others are working on unrelated games as we speak.

Therefore, in my opinion the best thing you can do is continue to better define your project so we can give you more feedback on it. We're already evaluating other fangame ideas as it is, so you'll have to make yours stand out.

Quote :
No multiplayer, armor to equip or level up

Those features should not be so difficult to implement. At a minimum, a Valis game must have a good magic and spell system.

By the way, I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just elaborating on my previous statements here. In fact, I could get behind a Valis game myself, provided:

(1) We had enough people in agreement who were clearly committed to finishing it come what may

(2) We had most details agreed upon beforehand,

(3) All team members proved they were competent for their positions, and

(4) I felt I could get along with the team members (assuming I would be participating, although I quite possibly have nothing to contribute -- but I think I speak for other people too when I say people's attitudes are important in such a project.)
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Fou-Lu
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Thu 14 Apr 2011, 1:39 am

I'd like to add here that as of the final release of Streets of Rage Remake the project has gotten a Cease and Desist from Sega.

This is how things always work, they wait till the project is basically done then they tell everyone to stop working on it.

However it's already to late as the game is now all over the net. XD

But this still causes a problem, as even the final version of something may have bugs and you CAN NOT release a bug fix or you will find yourself in hot water with the company that gave you the C&D

So in the end it prevents people from tweaking their works not much else. Which sucks btw.
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Shadow Blade
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Thu 14 Apr 2011, 1:55 am

Fou-Lu wrote:
This is how things always work

ERROR, not "always", I haven't problem with Capcom and my SF 1 remake, even if I posted it in Capcom Unity, they take it as a fan made.

Anyway, why a Valis project...? I know, there's fans of Valis here, but if you can't made a Valis fan project for the C&D so... it's simple: Based on!

Quote :
Valis the Fantasm soldier= Vals the Dream warrior
Yuko=Yuka
Reiko=Reika

I don't mean that... I hope you're not serious, honestly that's so frikin obvious Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Thu 14 Apr 2011, 2:43 am

As far as I know Capcom has never given out a Cease & Desist, they are an exception tho not the rule. They don't seem to mind fan projects considering the huge number of hacks and fangames of Megaman that have been done.
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kraken
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PostSubject: Re: Why don't we make our own Valis sequel?   Fri 15 Apr 2011, 7:27 pm

Quote :
In addition, there are already propositions for fangames (LordAdrian has one, I had one, Megaman made one a long time ago, and EvilReiko is actually working on his own Valis game). And others are working on unrelated games as we speak.
It's why I suggested to try to reunite every project in one. taking the best idea from each proposition.


Quote :
I don't mean that... I hope you're not serious, honestly that's so frikin obvious

I am serious, If any music, sprite or name are taken form the original, the editor have no legal issues. Even if it's obvious.
We also can change few thing about the armor of the characters and create a story who will be a mix of every episode (and so will be different).

It's how the site dlsite work in occident, they can legally sell project based on other series if all the name some differences.

But the best thing to do is to work with someone in japan and releasing the game as doujin. the legislation about doujin is really different.

the case Koumajou densetsu is a good example, everything in this game seems to be a ripp off of castlevania, even the name (Akumajou densetsu is Castlevania 3 dracula curse).


koumajou densetsu
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