So why do you think the series ended?

First of all, hi, I just signed up. Anyways, to try to bring up some interesting comments, why do you think the series really ended? Was Valis IV that bad? Did the fans hate that Yuko got retired? I thought Valis IV was a great game even playing it years later. I first played the SNES version and just thought it was so-so. I think that version is to blame. It was a more mainstream release yet it was far more mediocre than any other game in the series. But hey, at least Lena could run (too bad she couldn't slide anymore!)

Sorry, I think I posted this in the wrong forum.

the series definitely could of gotten another sequel. Its just really sad that Telnet had to resort to the hentai way lol. Ah well, hopefully another company picks up the valis franchise soon and continue with the series like WayForward did with Contra4

Reel wrote:

First of all, hi, I just signed up.

Welcome! I'm Ianna!

Quote :

Anyways, to try to bring up some interesting comments, why do you think the series really ended?

Well, let's address this on a point-by-point basis, shall we? ^_^
(WARNING: Possible Spoilers)

KEY-
PCE: PC Engine
SFC: Super Famicom
SNES: Super Nintendo Entertainment System

1)

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Was Valis IV that bad?

I don't really think the game in itself was bad. I haven't played the PCE version myself, but I've read a good cinematic summary on the Dreamland of Valis web page. Besides, from what I heard, the in-game graphics were pretty good in that version as well, so I don't think that was to blame.

So, what could be the reason, then? Well...Valis 3 was originally intended as the "end" of the series. However, probably due to popular fan demand (or Telenet wanting to make money off of what they felt was a popular series), Telenet decided to make a fourth one. Yet, Yuko in the Realm of the Gods (er...the "Perfect" World), they felt it wouldn't probably make sense for her to be brought back as the main heroine. Which leads me to my next point...

2)

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Did the fans hate that Yuko got retired?

Well, if the amount of Japanese fanart and doujinshi on the Web is any indicator, then it is most likely that many fans were indeed upset that Yuko wasn't the lead in Valis IV. Although Lena is some ways similar to Yuko, she was NOT Yuko. It is a shame, though, because another Valis game could have allowed Lena's character to grow a bit more. It wasn't meant to be, unfortunately.

3)

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I first played the SNES version and just thought it was so-so. I think that version is to blame.

Well, the SNES series was one of the reasons what killed the series in the U.S. at least. On its own, Super Valis IV was not a bad game. In comparison to say...the Genesis version of Valis 1 or 3, it paled in comparison. After all, why did they remove the cinemas and the other two characters (Asufal and Amu/Ahm) from that version? I kind of doubt it was lack of space. Time constraints on the development SFC/SNES version? Perhaps. Wanting to cater more toward the mainstream action game crowd by removing most of the cinemas? Very likely. Yet by removing the cinemas probably made the roles of Ahm and Asufal not make really much sense, so they were probably removed as a result.

4) Death of Turbo Duo

The other reason why Valis virtually dropped off many a video gamer's radar in the U.S. was the Turbo Duo was virtually dead by the time Valis 4 came out. The SNES was the only way American (and perhaps other countries) could play it...unless they were lucky enough to import the PCE version. However, just as I addressed above, the SNES version was sub-par. That's probably what killed players' interest in the series in the states.

5) Post Valis IV

Of course, years later, the cell phone remakes of 1 and 2 were made, as well as the Valis X games. However, I thought Valis X was a bad move on Telenet's point, which probably what lead to their demise. True, they weren't directly responsible for the game, but they LICENSED it to another company to be made into a hentai game. I mean, imagine if Square-Enix were to do such a thing to any of the Final Fantasies (like VII), or Capcom allow anyone to do that to Street Fighter? That is just plain wrong.

6) The Future (Japan)

So...is there really any future for the Valis series in Japan? As far as new non-hentai Valis games, it is unlikely, unless someone picks up the Japanese rights to the series. Even if someone does make a new game in Japan, would come out in other countries?

7) The Future (other countries)?

Well, Valis seems pretty obscure in the States, so if someone DID make another Valis game...the possibilty of it coming over here is slim. Yet, I would at least like to see any of the Valis games to show up on the Virtual Console for the Wii though, even if its Valis 1 and/or 3 for the Genesis, Valis 2 and/or 3 on the Turbo Duo, or even Super Valis 4 for the SNES. Ideally, I'd like to see 4 or 1 imported for the Turbo Duo, but I don't think that will happen.

Anyway, thanks for reading my rant (if anyone has read it). I hope it wasn't too stupid or anything. ^^;;;

I was about to reply why Valis ended, but by reading iannafei's reply, I don't need to repeat the same thing

I can add little more:

Valis 1, 2 and 4 are so great, amazing graphics, music, gameplay, animations, etc. everything is great!

but the story of Valis 3 wasn't so good. it was properly made just to gain more cash. it was made to end the story.

also, Valis 4 is so amazing, but by having Yuko as an old mature woman, that's really something that fans didn't like. if it was like having a new character called Lena fighting along with Yuko (young Yuko ) that would be just more than amazing

iannafei has this pretty much covered, but to add a bit, I believe the time that Wolf Team broke off from Telenet to form their own small development company is when Valis 4 had come out. This would make sense because with the original development team gone, any future Valis games would be dissimilar and would potentially kill the series altogether. However, why they didn't develop another Valis game when they re-acquired Wolf Team isn't something I can answer. That's a bit perplexing too.

The other thing I have to say is why did Telenet stop making the series if it was their main money maker? As many people agree, they're idiots.

So between those aspects, and iannafei's post, I think that explains a lot. Though I don't disregard evilReiko's post, I disagree with it. I thought that Valis 3 had an extremely good storyline to keep with Valis tradition. The problem that I see most with Valis 4, and not to demean Lena at all, but the story was something far too different. People didn't get a feel for Lena and their beloved Yuko had become a goddess in the heavens. While I don't mind that Yuko became a goddess, I feel a different storyline could've been written so she would have future adventures as the Valis Warrior, especially knowing that Dark World was absorbed (somewhere). Though Reiko is probably right: V3 was made for cash and cash is what it made. =P

Yeah, Valis 3 was made for cash, but aren't all commercial games?

Still though, with all said I still stand with the belief that the biggest contributor to the end of Valis was the SNES version. I think that for some reason they were expecting it to be popular, then when it wasn't, they thought the series had no significant audience. The thing is they were right if it came to that version, but not if it had been an authentic port of the original, being sized down wouldn't have mattered, side scrolling platformers started in old systems after all. There was no need for voices or animations. Take Ninja Gaiden on the NES, which is one of the most popular NES games of all time, all 3 actually. I'd even be willing to say that Ninja Gaiden copied Valis.

Because of that, I have to strongly disagree with the comment that the cinemas would have been thought of as negative. No way, not to the players. And just as much not to the developers, if not more, not unless they lived under a rock and missed the reception of Ninja Gaiden games in the west.

We'll probably never know exactly why for sure, but it makes the most sense that release deadlines all to do with the developer team economics was responsible for the SNES game being changed and stripped so much. It wasn't even the same game anymore. All it had was the backgrounds and sprites, with a few screens of the cinemas thrown in at random. It had good music, that's about the only good thing. But it had no story to keep up with, it was just another sword platform game with average gameplay among the SNES releases at the time.

And with that effort with lukewarm returns for the spent resources, if not just resources down the drain, it was done. Maybe they just plain didn't have the money or reputation to put together another worthwhile game anymore, I mean, something that they'd be sure would be successful enough. That's my theory. Because sure, they could have just slapped together another game with what the resources they had at their disposal, but if you think about it, maybe they did just that. Selling the name to the hentai stuff.

Also, I'm sorry to say but I have extreme doubts that the series could ever recover from it's hentai reputation, to say the least. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not going to kid myself.

In history, Valis 4 was the last game, but after that game Telenet release two more games for PC-Engine: Valis Visual Collection (ok, isn't a game, only cinemas from Valis 2, 3 and 4) and finally Valis - The Legend of A Fantasm Soldier (a very nice remake of Valis 1 and everybody have... in the PC ) not mention the cellphone games.

Anyway, who says Valis ended? Yeah! some publicity, sorry. XD

HeromanX wrote:

So between those aspects, and iannafei's post, I think that explains a lot. Though I don't disregard evilReiko's post, I disagree with it. I thought that Valis 3 had an extremely good storyline to keep with Valis tradition.

I don't mean Valis 3 is not good. actually I like Valis 3 too. the problem is that Valis 3 was made to end the series, that's the problem (which is the main question of the topic). even after releasing Valis 4, fans feel like this is completely not Valis (maybe because didn't really play a major role)

HeromanX wrote:

People didn't get a feel for Lena and their beloved Yuko had become a goddess in the heavens. While I don't mind that Yuko became a goddess, I feel a different storyline could've been written so she would have future adventures as the Valis Warrior, especially knowing that Dark World was absorbed (somewhere).

Well for one Yuko was still a 17-18 at the time soo i was thinking they would continued her series between V3 and V4 till she became old enough to be a goddess i mean that just came out of nowhere. I still say that telenet should of thoght it through onhow they was going to ende the series. Oh well! The things we would lke to say if telenet.com was in english.

Valna wrote:

HeromanX wrote:

People didn't get a feel for Lena and their beloved Yuko had become a goddess in the heavens. While I don't mind that Yuko became a goddess, I feel a different storyline could've been written so she would have future adventures as the Valis Warrior, especially knowing that Dark World was absorbed (somewhere).

Well for one Yuko was still a 17-18 at the time soo i was thinking they would continued her series between V3 and V4 till she became old enough to be a goddess i mean that just came out of nowhere. I still say that telenet should of thoght it through onhow they was going to ende the series. Oh well! The things we would lke to say if telenet.com was in english.

*Passing by as a faint shadow* At least they should've closed the gap of Valis 3 and 4 by explaining how Yuko became a goddess. Sure, she returned both blades to Vecanti, but what happened afterwards? Was she chosen? (which would've been a nice intro piece to Valis 4 to clarify that) Did she have to undergo a trial-by-fire sort of thing? Someone decide to go trash Vecanti again?

So many ideas... but I guess it is inevitable. If anything killed Valis, it will have to be Valis X. If Valis still manages to live... then the Valis we remember will be dead as the perverted Valis we have now will plague the beauty of Valis and those that protected her, leaving us to our classics and memories.

Thinking about what Valis X would look like, if I dare grab the game, brings memories of Samus Aran hentai I stumbled upon out of cuiosity... *Shudders as he fades into the darkness*

betaflex1 wrote:

Valna wrote:

HeromanX wrote:

People didn't get a feel for Lena and their beloved Yuko had become a goddess in the heavens. While I don't mind that Yuko became a goddess, I feel a different storyline could've been written so she would have future adventures as the Valis Warrior, especially knowing that Dark World was absorbed (somewhere).

Well for one Yuko was still a 17-18 at the time soo i was thinking they would continued her series between V3 and V4 till she became old enough to be a goddess i mean that just came out of nowhere. I still say that telenet should of thoght it through onhow they was going to ende the series. Oh well! The things we would lke to say if telenet.com was in english.

*Passing by as a faint shadow* At least they should've closed the gap of Valis 3 and 4 by explaining how Yuko became a goddess. Sure, she returned both blades to Vecanti, but what happened afterwards? Was she chosen? (which would've been a nice intro piece to Valis 4 to clarify that) Did she have to undergo a trial-by-fire sort of thing? Someone decide to go trash Vecanti again?

So many ideas... but I guess it is inevitable. If anything killed Valis, it will have to be Valis X. If Valis still manages to live... then the Valis we remember will be dead as the perverted Valis we have now will plague the beauty of Valis and those that protected her, leaving us to our classics and memories.

Thinking about what Valis X would look like, if I dare grab the game, brings memories of Samus Aran hentai I stumbled upon out of cuiosity... *Shudders as he fades into the darkness*

Honestly, all it would take to make another legitimate Valis game is to acquire the license to do so and hire on each original Wolfteam member that worked on the titles. It might take a few million dollars in contracts to do with no guarantee that it'll be a success, but if anything's to be said of Wolfteam's success outside of Telenet and their own individual works, then anything they put out, as one or as many, will be successful. That said, it probably isn't too terribly difficult to actually get ahold of those members and ask if they'd be interested in making another legitimate, non-hentai Valis game if they were offered the right contract. If we'd get enough positive responses (mostly from the original animators and music composers), then it's obviously possible to save the series from its current fate.

The real question would be who would have access to enough money to contract these developers to our cause?

In response to how Yuko became goddess, I believe it's rather clear, even if it's not explicitly explained. When she defeated Ramses/Glames in Valis III, she acquired Lashius/Leethus from him. Essentially, it's like having Yin and then finding Yang. She had Valis, one of the legendary blades, and then came to possess the other legendary blade, Lashius/Leethus. If anyone were to even attempt to face her down, she'd decimate them in seconds. No offense or defense would be strong enough to even closely match her. Thus, when she returned the swords to the heavens, she was given the goddess status in return for sealing away the powers of Valis and Lashius/Leethus. I believe that's a plausible and likely outcome and it explains most everything between V3 and V4 (because having sealed away the powers of the swords, she then "bubbled" up, as seen in Valis 4).

As for Valis X, I'm mostly interested because it fuses my two interests: hentai games and Valis. It may not be a good game, may not be a game for "purists" to play, but out of interest and curiosity, I'd like to play the game. It seems to have amazing CG artwork, so regardless, it's probably worth it. If you still haven't seen screenshots from the game, the official site has some, both H and Non-H screens/wallpapers. I won't give the link here for the sole reason that I don't want to get burned at the stake.

Shadow Blade wrote:

Anyway, who says Valis ended?

I give you a standing up Applause...

you're right... valis is alive meanwhile we keep it alive...

Heromanx wrote:

As for Valis X, I'm mostly interested because it fuses my two interests: hentai games and Valis.

I think it's fair you have interest in Valis Cross...

I mean, we like Valis girls... and we're heterosexual men... it's normal we want to see some extra action...

the problem here was that the Publisher company preferred to create a Hentai game instead an action game...

I'm not sure... but maybe they would have earned much more money creating a sequel of Valis, than making that hentai game...

HeromanX wrote:

Honestly, all it would take to make another legitimate Valis game is to acquire the license to do so and hire on each original Wolfteam member that worked on the titles. It might take a few million dollars in contracts to do with no guarantee that it'll be a success, but if anything's to be said of Wolfteam's success outside of Telenet and their own individual works, then anything they put out, as one or as many, will be successful. That said, it probably isn't too terribly difficult to actually get ahold of those members and ask if they'd be interested in making another legitimate, non-hentai Valis game if they were offered the right contract. If we'd get enough positive responses (mostly from the original animators and music composers), then it's obviously possible to save the series from its current fate.

The real question would be who would have access to enough money to contract these developers to our cause?

In response to how Yuko became goddess, I believe it's rather clear, even if it's not explicitly explained. When she defeated Ramses/Glames in Valis III, she acquired Lashius/Leethus from him. Essentially, it's like having Yin and then finding Yang. She had Valis, one of the legendary blades, and then came to possess the other legendary blade, Lashius/Leethus. If anyone were to even attempt to face her down, she'd decimate them in seconds. No offense or defense would be strong enough to even closely match her. Thus, when she returned the swords to the heavens, she was given the goddess status in return for sealing away the powers of Valis and Lashius/Leethus. I believe that's a plausible and likely outcome and it explains most everything between V3 and V4 (because having sealed away the powers of the swords, she then "bubbled" up, as seen in Valis 4).

As for Valis X, I'm mostly interested because it fuses my two interests: hentai games and Valis. It may not be a good game, may not be a game for "purists" to play, but out of interest and curiosity, I'd like to play the game. It seems to have amazing CG artwork, so regardless, it's probably worth it. If you still haven't seen screenshots from the game, the official site has some, both H and Non-H screens/wallpapers. I won't give the link here for the sole reason that I don't want to get burned at the stake.

Hm... I have seen a Streets of Rage remake done, and have it here as well! Although it wouldn't emulate a 100% Valis game, an interesting idea (on top of the Valis fighting game--I should grab that when its released >_>) could be to make a SoR-style Valis game. Some other homebrew developers could also shed light to emulating a Valis game and possibly help with a side-scrolling action game. A good side-scroller I've seen is Bunny Must Die, although that's more free-form than linear.

Hard part is finding these developers...
Speaking of which, how does one make their own characters for a MUGEN fighting game? *Noticed Valis Colliseum shares a bit of a MUGEN resemblance*

[quote=HeromanX]Honestly, all it would take to make another legitimate Valis game is to acquire the license to do so and hire on each original Wolfteam member that worked on the titles. It might take a few million dollars in contracts to do with no guarantee that it'll be a success, but if anything's to be said of Wolfteam's success outside of Telenet and their own individual works, then anything they put out, as one or as many, will be successful. That said, it probably isn't too terribly difficult to actually get ahold of those members and ask if they'd be interested in making another legitimate, non-hentai Valis game if they were offered the right contract. If we'd get enough positive responses (mostly from the original animators and music composers), then it's obviously possible to save the series from its current fate.[/quote]

I'd certainly like to see Tri-Ace (one of Wolf Team's "successors") do a Valis game with an engine similar to the Valkyrie Profile games. I mean, I'd certainly like to see a more expanded version of Dreamland, after all. ::Sigh:: But one can only dream...

Quote :

In response to how Yuko became goddess, I believe it's rather clear, even if it's not explicitly explained. When she defeated Ramses/Glames in Valis III, she acquired Lashius/Leethus from him. Essentially, it's like having Yin and then finding Yang. She had Valis, one of the legendary blades, and then came to possess the other legendary blade, Lashius/Leethus. If anyone were to even attempt to face her down, she'd decimate them in seconds. No offense or defense would be strong enough to even closely match her. Thus, when she returned the swords to the heavens, she was given the goddess status in return for sealing away the powers of Valis and Lashius/Leethus. I believe that's a plausible and likely outcome and it explains most everything between V3 and V4 (because having sealed away the powers of the swords, she then "bubbled" up, as seen in Valis 4).

Well, at the beginning of 4, we see Yuko in a sort of suspended sleep, guarding Valis. Yet, Leethus is nowhere to be seen in the game. True, she had it sealed up somewhere, but where? And it is unlikely it was destroyed, since Valis wouldn't be able to exist without it (like light can't exist without the dark, night can't exist without day, etc.). Anyway, the fate of Leethus would be an interesting subject of a fangame and/or a fanfic.

Quote :

Hm... I have seen a Streets of Rage remake done, and have it here as well! Although it wouldn't emulate a 100% Valis game, an interesting idea (on top of the Valis fighting game--I should grab that when its released >_>) could be to make a SoR-style Valis game. Some other homebrew developers could also shed light to emulating a Valis game and possibly help with a side-scrolling action game. A good side-scroller I've seen is Bunny Must Die, although that's more free-form than linear.

Hmm...I do know someone was working with the OpenBOR engine to make this. I don't know what the current status of this project is, however.

HeromanX wrote:

The real question would be who would have access to enough money to contract these developers to our cause?

I like your comments and explainations HeromanX, especially the events between Valis 3 & 4.

but as for the above question you mentioned, I disagree. Because it's not about money. the ones who has kept Valis alive since the old days are us (Valis fans). even if Valis was good but fans didn't exist for this game, no sequel would have been produced after Valis 1, don't you agree

I believe Valis X was produced because the creators noticed that there are many Hentai Valis fans out there, that's why maybe Valis X was produced

if we want Valis to be revived and reproduced again, then it's WE who are going to do it !! We don't need money, we don't need developers, we are going to be the developers for various Valis projects

evilReiko wrote:

HeromanX wrote:

The real question would be who would have access to enough money to contract these developers to our cause?

I like your comments and explainations HeromanX, especially the events between Valis 3 & 4.

but as for the above question you mentioned, I disagree. Because it's not about money. the ones who has kept Valis alive since the old days are us (Valis fans). even if Valis was good but fans didn't exist for this game, no sequel would have been produced after Valis 1, don't you agree

I believe Valis X was produced because the creators noticed that there are many Hentai Valis fans out there, that's why maybe Valis X was produced

if we want Valis to be revived and reproduced again, then it's WE who are going to do it !! We don't need money, we don't need developers, we are going to be the developers for various Valis projects

Thanks for the compliments, Reiko.

Though again, I should probably point out that it may not be about the money to us as fans, but if we want another Wolfteam-developed Valis, we'd certainly have to go about it from a business standpoint as that's who they are: businessmen. It may be free for Valis fans to make a game, but we aren't the original devs for the series. The point I was trying to make is that we could make another legitimate game and not a fan-made one by simply acquiring the license and grouping together as many of he original dev team members as we could to help make the game. At that point, we'd be able to commercialize an authentic Valis game and get it out in the public eye. That would be our goal as fans since we're not out for money or reputation.

The point I made with that particular statement is that the original dev team would be in it for money or love and we couldn't be sure which until we talked to them. Even then, most of them, if not all, would only agree to it if offered the right contract to do so. They're especially good at what they do even today, it's probably a multi-million USD contract just to sign them on. That's why we'd need the money to contract them.

And I like iannafei's question to Leethus' location post-V3. I think I will take a few hours to answer that question.

The Valis series seems to have the same fate as the Mega Man X series.

Valis 3 was meant to be the end of the series, and Mega Man X5 was meant to be the end of that series.

Since Valis was a money maker (I guess), another one was cranked out, in the case of Mega Man X, another three were cranked out.

As a result, the fourth Valis game wasn't as memorable (or from what I've played of Super Valis 4, just not as good) and also created plot holes. The Mega Man X series had a similar, but much more brutal suckification (although, I do like X6 better than X5) and many more plot holes.

Another similarity is that Valis 4 shifted focus towards as she is the new heroine. The Mega Man X series has shifted focus to Zero, as he is the star in the next series of Mega Man titles.

To screw things up even more, there was another series made (the Mega Man Zero series), but since Keiji Inafune wasn't involved with X6-8, there are even more plot holes and unanswered question (such as, where the hell is Axl?).

Just some similarities that I've noticed.

gszx1337 wrote:

The Valis series seems to have the same fate as the Mega Man X series.

Valis 3 was meant to be the end of the series, and Mega Man X5 was meant to be the end of that series.

Since Valis was a money maker (I guess), another one was cranked out, in the case of Mega Man X, another three were cranked out.

As a result, the fourth Valis game wasn't as memorable (or from what I've played of Super Valis 4, just not as good) and also created plot holes. The Mega Man X series had a similar, but much more brutal suckification (although, I do like X6 better than X5) and many more plot holes.

Another similarity is that Valis 4 shifted focus towards as she is the new heroine. The Mega Man X series has shifted focus to Zero, as he is the star in the next series of Mega Man titles.

To screw things up even more, there was another series made (the Mega Man Zero series), but since Keiji Inafune wasn't involved with X6-8, there are even more plot holes and unanswered question (such as, where the hell is Axl?).

Just some similarities that I've noticed.

Actually, the MMX series was supposed to end at X4. The ending to it proves that much, especially for Zero's ending. Since fans craved more, they produced more. Of course they weren't going to be as good as the rest of the series because by all technical means, the series ended. XD

But I agree with your point. Valis was supposed to end at Valis 3 (anyone notice how Lena met Yuko in V4, but the ending of V3 says Yuko was never seen again?), but they decided to give it a go for more money. Since it bombed, they didn't produce any more, so it was good-bye and good-night.

HeromanX wrote:

Actually, the MMX series was supposed to end at X4.

Wikipedia wrote:

Word has spread that Keiji Inafune had originally planned to end the Mega Man X series with Mega Man X5.

EDIT: Couldn't find anything on X4.

talking on this subject is difficult for me, because I love so much...

I think the designers of every developped game, wish for a sequel...
maybe some of the writters think on a story, and plan to finish it quick...
for example, Halo... I think they planned it for three games since the begining...
but in many other cases, games are created... and they wait to see the public reaction...
if lots of fans appear.. then make another game...

From my point of view... I think the most appropiate ending for Valis, was the borning of a new Valis Warrior...

this makes us feel the Valis Legend not just started with and and didn't finish with ...

Just as Evil Reiko's fanfic: Soul of Valis (click to read)

so, somehow, I want to believe, the designers knew what they did.

but in the other way... I'm sure it had to do with money...