General Ignorance

Ugh... so bored... need to... do something useful...

Uhh, I hear Demon Lord Rogles had twelve generals. Besides Reiko, could I get their names and descriptions? It could help in my writing of my fanfic.

sure here you go, the list of Rogles's generals (arranged by appearance):

the below appeared in Valis 1. the information for each of them seems official, but doesn't seem to be so correct :

Gyeda: He lacks brain-power, but has muscle and endurance. He is very loyal to Rogles, and has vowed to help the Dark World conquer all of the worlds. The chatty Venon annoys him.

Geeva: She possesses supreme mobility, and is the master of gathering
information. She is not committed to fighting, but will come to the aid
of her friend Gyeda.

Venon: He pretends to be a loyal warrior to Rogles, but is really an articulate schemer. He believes that he is superior to Rogles; and, he has a strong rivalry with Izard.

Izard: He is a loner, always acting independently. He hates to fight; therefore, seldom does. Even Rogles would not dare to challenge his
magical power.

Voldes: Despite his fierce exterior, he possesses superior intelligence. Before Rogles, he was feared most by the others. he is diligently seeking to become the King of the Dark World.

Reiko: She is a high school student, born into money, but not love. She's been lured on a date with Rogles, against the advice of her friend Yuko. Using the dark power of "Vecanti", Rogles turns her into a powerful solider of Darkness.



The below appeared in Valis 2. There supposed to be 6 generals left of the 12, but only 2 appeared:

Zaluga

Gillan (last general)

it's mentioned that Gillan was Rogles's last general. So the rest of generals were killed by Megas army. about the order of being killed, there were properly killed between Zaluga and Gillan, and not necessarily Zaluga was the first one killed of these 6. but Gillan was surely the last one. I believe the unmentioned 4 generals were never mentioned in any manual or official information at all (not even their names or roles were mentioned)

So, according to current known information, the other four can be completely original characters in fan works, or such things. This gives me ideas...

As far as I can tell Venon, Izard and Voldes are NOT generals of Rogles army but instead they are other Dark Lords themselves.

Thought it's possible that Gyeda and Geeva might also be generals. Still the only confirmed Generals in his army are Gillain, Zaluga and Gayus. Gayus was in the MSX game of Valis 2 he might have been in some way related to Voldes as he to was a master of lightning.

He held the Phantasm Jewel which I assume he stole from Valia since it looks alot like something she wears. He was also on the game's cover.

I don't think Reiko was every considered to be a general of Rogles actually more like his partner or something. The manga seems to confirm this btw.

Megas tried to get Rogles generals to join him and if they didn't he killed them. It's possible megas had no forces of his own and that Hiezen that big blue guy and red fire toe are all Rogles former generals.

Hiezen being a general of Rogles seems a bit much but the very least he's related to one. I say this because he tells Yuko he's here to avenge his mother. The only person that Yuko killed that could be his mother seems to be Geeva.

Well actually there IS one other person but, I perfer not to think about it that being Reiko. XD

Since I'm on the topic of Hiezen he is extremely strong and possible the most powerful opponent Yuko ever faced in the entire Valis series. Though Yuko quite litterally ripped his head off she was left bloody and on her knees as a result of the battle.

She can't even stand up.

In the Sharp and MSX games he was much more then a simple boss that spins around
He actually had a place in the story before the fight with him and was even on the game's cover. Lastly he's the only boss on Megas side that was also in the pce version.

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As far as I can tell Venon, Izard and Voldes are NOT generals of Rogles army but instead they are other Dark Lords themselves.

even if they are dark lords themselve, they are still under Rogles as generals.

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Thought it's possible that Gyeda and Geeva might also be generals. Still the only confirmed Generals in his army are Gillain, Zaluga and Gayus. Gayus was in the MSX game of Valis 2 he might have been in some way related to Voldes as he to was a master of lightning.

He held the Phantasm Jewel which I assume he stole from Valia since it looks alot like something she wears. He was also on the game's cover.

wait! we have 2 different versions of Valis 2, and in these 2 versions, one has Gayus and another version has Gaias. he's properly the same general, but looks different in each version:

this is Gaias


and this is Gayus


Gaias is absolutely one of the main generals of Megas. if Gayus is the same general, then he's surely one of Megas's generals. if Gayus is a different general, then MAYBE he's Rogles's general OR Megas's general.

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I don't think Reiko was every considered to be a general of Rogles actually more like his partner or something. The manga seems to confirm this btw.

sorry my friend, but this is incorrect. because if it's correct, that makes Yuko also a partner of Valia, which is obviously wrong.

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Hiezen being a general of Rogles seems a bit much but the very least he's related to one. I say this because he tells Yuko he's here to avenge his mother. The only person that Yuko killed that could be his mother seems to be Geeva.

that's very interesting point you mentioned but it's not necessary that Geeva is Heizen's mother. You know, Valis producers mentioned some generals but didn't mention their names or roles at all. So may Geeva is his mother, but I think his mother is not mentioned/displayed explicitly in the series

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Well actually there IS one other person but, I perfer not to think about it that being Reiko. XD

well.. I think when he said "because you killed my mother" is only a random reason the producers used to make Heizen a strong enemy to Yuko. not because they were planning for this



but you know FouLu, you enlightened a very interesting point: all generals are under the formal ruler of Dark world, who was Rogles <--- which makes Heizen, Toe, and Gaias under Rogles generals as well. Then later, when Rogles died, some stayed believing in Rogles while some others (Heizen, Toe, and Gaias) wanted a strong leader instead of staying without emperor.

so, let me list Rogles's 12 generals again :

Valis 1:
1. Gyeda
2. Geeva
3. Venon
4. Izard
5. Reiko

Valis 2 (who stayed faithful to Rogles):
6. Zaluga
7. Gillan

Valis 2 (who prefered Megas):
8. Gaias
9. Toe
10. Heizen


now 2 left

I think I've guessed one of these 2 unknown generals, but not sure if he (or properly SHE) is a general, because she appeared as a sub-general in the series. She appeared in first stage of Valis Syd and Valis 2 PCE version. it also appeared in the manual along with Gillan & Zaluga. This:


one general left, but I can't guess who could it be. maybe one of the sub-bosses who appeared before Gillan or maybe not mentioned at all

BTW, can anyone translate what's written on this manual page properly it will be useful to know these characters names/little-details :

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even if they are dark lords themselve, they are still under Rogles as generals.

I don't think that's the case.


Let's discuss them individually.

Rogles: He takes the highest position simply because he is the strongest of them all. The other lords are not all loyal to him.

Voldes: he seeks to overthrow Rogles as king of the Dark World.

Izard: In the manga he is after Yuko for his own purposes not because of Rogles commands. States here Rogles wouldn't want to fight him.

Venon: he pretends to be loyal probally for personal gain. Backstabber.

Gyeda: Chooses to be loyal to Rogles and follow his ideals. This could be for a variety of reasons including, respect and admiration, or just plain wanting the result Rogles promises.

Geeva: helps Rogles because she's friends with Gyeda. Unlikely to be loyal to Rogles himself.

Reiko isn't listed among these people and is probally not considered a Dark Lord herself. Personally I see her more as Rogles Queen. Or that is very likely what he promised her. The manual DOES state that she's in love with Rogles after all.

The manga sheds some interesting light on Izard I'd take a look at it if you want to know more about him. He's featured rather prominantly and is quite an interesting character IMO.

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wait! we have 2 different versions of Valis 2, and in these 2 versions, one has Gayus and another version has Gaias. he's properly the same general, but looks different in each version:

this is Gaias


and this is Gayus


Gaias is absolutely one of the main generals of Megas. if Gayus is the same general, then he's surely one of Megas's generals. if Gayus is a different general, then MAYBE he's Rogles's general OR Megas's general.

I think they are different people entirely, they fight, talk, and act completely different. Also Gayus is seems very loyal to Rogles, he built a laser eye shooting statue of him.

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sorry my friend, but this is incorrect. because if it's correct, that makes Yuko also a partner of Valia, which is obviously wrong.

Yuko is Valia's daughter which makes her a princess. I don't think she would be considered a general for Valia.

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that's very interesting point you mentioned but it's not necessary that Geeva is Heizen's mother. You know, Valis producers mentioned some generals but didn't mention their names or roles at all. So may Geeva is his mother, but I think his mother is not mentioned/displayed explicitly in the series

There are alot of possiblities for this. It could be that his mother died as a result of Yuko's actions. This would mean that Yuko never met his mother and thus his mother could still be on the side of Megas.

Personally I perfer him on Megas side and having nothing to do with Rogles.

BTW the Reiko thing was a joke ;p

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well.. I think when he said "because you killed my mother" is only a random reason the producers used to make Heizen a strong enemy to Yuko. not because they were planning for this

That's always a possiblity but I just love to theorize. : )

Here's another likely general



Additionally everyone on that page is probally a general minus that weird thing on the right.

So here's how I see the known generals of the twelve.

1: Zaluga
2: the Claw guy on this page
3: the bird guy
4: Necrodepto
5: Gayus
5: Gillan
6: Gaias
7: Hiezen (possiblly)
8: Toe
9:
10:
11:
12:

I believe all the subbosses leading up to Gillian are generals. Valis SD seems to support this somewhat. I realize some of them appear twice in the pce version but they don't in the SD one.

The rest could be defectors that joined Megas army. That should fill the entire 12

This is getting quite complicated. If only Telenet Japan would've clarified this more thouroughly.

Well, concerning Reiko-senpai's request for a translation of the manual scan...

Green Section:
Ok, this part was quite easy.

Barney on steroids over here is:
Za-Ru-Ga, or Red Salamander Zaruga.

Then we have Green dood with sword:
Gi-Ra-N, or Gillan, the last general of Rogles.

Orange Section:
This part was kinda harder, seeing as I knew considerably less about these five.

The horned orange guy with the sword is:
A-Re-Su, which could be something like "Aresu" (I doubt it), "Ares," or "Ales." Though, I would think that Ares would be pronounced differently...

The short green reptilian in the blue armor is:
A-Ru-Fe, which I think might be "Arufe" or "Alufe." I'm quite stumped with this one.

The guy with the bug wings is:
Su-Ti-N-Gaa, which I'm quite certain is "Stinger."

Now, that purple "thing" in the corner there is:
Ha-Ro-o-n, which could be "Haron", only with extra emphasis on the short "o".

Finally, we have what I believe Reiko-senpai was referring to as a possibe Rogles general:
Ga-Ti-Ru, which may or may not be "Gatir" or "Gatil." For some reason, "Gatille" seems to come to mind as I pronounce her name, leaving me with another option. Englishifying katakana is not easy work, kids.

Oh, and you may notice I neglected to mention the kanji right next to the names of Zaruga, Gillan, Arufe, and Gatil in the scan. This is because I know next to nothing concerning kanji, although I do recognize the "no" kanji, which is sort of like a "'s" in Japanese, but could also be used in describing things (ex. "Nazo no Murasamejou" which means "The Mysterious Murasame Castle", seeing as "Nazo" would translate to "Puzzle" or "Riddle," and "Murasamejou" is a combination of the Kanji for "Murasame," and "Jou," which means castle or fortress, as far as I can tell). So, I am quite certain that these lines are to describe these characters, similar to the way "Red Salamander" describes Zaruga (In fact, that may just be what the kanji next to his name translates to).

If I am wrong, please correct me. Also, if you are fluent in the ways of Kanji, please help!

Fou-Lu wrote:

I don't think that's the case.

You're points are very conviencing, I would have already believed what you said , BUT.. the official english manuals are just messed up. I mean, those who translated the Valis series changed alot of facts.

see this, Gillan is saying he's the last general of MEGAS :


also, in this same english manual, they mentioned this part:

"What would you think if your best friend went on a date with the King of
the Dark World; and, she did it just because she thought he was cute!?"

that's wrong. Reiko is NOT Yuko's best friend, in fact, she's not even her friend. <--- we discussed this before in some topic and we all came up with this conclusion (later I will explain how if you would like)

and there are so many many mistakes everywhere that goes against the japanese original plot.

But, as you can see, these english translators looks like they didn't really have the plot, they were translating what they were watching, just like normal players. and certainly later they came up with this manual, not because they have the plot, that's why I don't want to depend on what they say.

if we can get the Valis 1 PCE version conversations translated, it will be very useful for us

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Here's another likely general

I was about to mention him, but Necrodepto is in the possibility of Being Rogles' or Megas' general. Necrodepto surely appeared before Gillan, but that does not necessary makes him a Rogles' general.

unlike Gatille (the winged red beast), she asked Yuko to hand over Valis sword, that makes her surely a Rogles' general (look at the screen shot of her I took again).

I'm not saying Necrodepto is not Rogles's general, but I'm saying "We don't know" which general he works for but probably YES he's Rogles' general



as for these monsters:

first to say, thank you so much ZeLoz for the translation, this is the first time we get their official names I will save their names in my collections thank you again

Zaluga & Gillan are Rogles' generals, we know this for sure.

Gatille is a subboss, but looks unique, also she threatened Yuko by handing over the sword. So I believe she's a Rogles's general already.

but look what I found, I found these monsters in the game:


top-left image monster = common monster, not general, not even subboss.
top-right image monster = subboss, but appeared several times (which makes him common "strong" monster)
bottom-left image monster = suboss, but again appeared several times. Also, this subboss appeared AFTER Gillan.
bottom-right image monster = common monster.

so in brief, all of them are not generals of Rogles, except Gatille.



so, here is the list again:

1. Gyeda
2. Geeva
3. Venon
4 Izard
5. Voldes
6. Reiko

7. Gatille
8. Zaluga
9. Gillan

10. Gaias
11. Toe
12. Heizen

WOW! I got it, our dicussion and argument guided us to know all 12 generals

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if we can get the Valis 1 PCE version conversations translated, it will be very useful for us

Mmmm I personally think the boss information sounds accurate and supports the manga. However for the purpose of having correct information I'll ask my friend about that manual translation. However, I'm not even sure it discusses the bosses at all.

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"What would you think if your best friend went on a date with the King of
the Dark World; and, she did it just because she thought he was cute!?"

This line is just taken from the advertisement. Which was used to get people to buy the game. It's not canonical information imo.

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Reiko is NOT Yuko's best friend, in fact, she's not even her friend. <--- we discussed this before in some topic and we all came up with this conclusion (later I will explain how if you would like)

I think Yuko saw Reiko as a friend and it was not vice versa. If this was not the case then her death wouldn't have hurt Yuko as much as it did.

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I was about to mention him, but Necrodepto is in the possibility of Being Rogles' or Megas' general. Necrodepto surely appeared before Gillan, but that does not necessary makes him a Rogles' general.

There are no army of Megas enemies till after Gillian's death. If there where enemies that where from megas army then the rogles troops would be fighting them.
I believe that in all Valis games your fighting the minions of the boss of the stage not just random enemies. Of course this could mean that he's under Gillian. However he has a title plus name like all the other bosses do. So that nixes that for me.

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top-right image monster = subboss, but appeared several times (which makes him common "strong" monster)

Arufe, and Gatil have titles attached to their names on the scan the rest of the ones you mentioned lack that. This is why I believe they are generals. I don't see why a normal enemy would have a title. Appearing multiple times is more likely laziness on the programers part.

I want to say that Stinger is a general to because well.... he looks like one don't you think? He'd be a Megas general if he was one though.

FouLu wrote:

Mmmm I personally think the boss information sounds accurate and supports the manga.

if you're referring to ZOL manga, although it look similar, but the plot of that manga is obviously different from the game's plot

evilReiko wrote:

if we can get the Valis 1 PCE version conversations translated, it will be very useful for us

FouLu wrote:

Mmmm I personally think the boss information sounds accurate and supports the manga. However for the purpose of having correct information I'll ask my friend about that manual translation. However, I'm not even sure it discusses the bosses at all.

I meant that these dicussions will clarify alot of official things for us, not really necessary about bosses

evilReiko wrote:

"What would you think if your best friend went on a date with the King of the Dark World; and, she did it just because she thought he was cute!?"

FouLu wrote:

This line is just taken from the advertisement. Which was used to get people to buy the game. It's not canonical information imo.

But it was used, so those english translators were referring to Reiko dating Rogles the plot is completely different. Reiko joined the dark forces just to run away from the humans world, that's all, not because she wanted to "date" the dark lord because she thinks he's cute those translators ..

FouLu wrote:

I think Yuko saw Reiko as a friend and it was not vice versa. If this was not the case then her death wouldn't have hurt Yuko as much as it did.

ok, here is the explaination How and Why Yuko and Reiko are not friends:

Yuko and Reiko are not friends, they are merely classmates. This is the proof from the intro of Valis 1:

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Reiko: ...You'll find out soon...
Well then, goodbye Yuko!
Take care!

*Reiko leaves..*

Yuko: What a strange person!
She mumbled some
meaningless things.

if Yuko was a friend to Reiko, she wouldn't have said this.

another better proof is this, from Reiko's death:

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Yuko: I know because you are
my friend.

Reiko: I have always been
nasty to you.
You don't have to lie to me.

Yuko *shouting*: It's not a lie!!
Maybe not to you,
but you are my good friend.

Reiko: Don't speak so loud!
It hurts my wound.

when Reiko said "Don't speak so loud!", Yuko recognized that Reiko knew that Yuko is lying <--- that sounds funny, but hope you understand it

and in the end of their chat, Yuko said:

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Yuko: Yes, yes...
you are always my friend,
from now on for forever!

She said "from now" which proves the fact that Yuko and Reiko started becaming true friends just at this moment.

Yuko got hurt by Reiko's death because Reiko allowed Yuko to kill her on purpose, eventhough Yuko knew that she can't defeat Reiko.

You know Reiko's Death Flash special attack, right? this attack causes the player (Yuko) to get %70 of damage to the HP. Reiko could easily use this attack twice and Yuko can never win. but, she uses it only once in the game, she doesn't use it more.

Also, once Yuko defeat Reiko, the beginning of Reiko's death animation shows that Reiko intendedly allowed Yuko to attack her. even Yuko's first sentence to Reiko was:

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Yuko: Reiko, you didn't fight
your best on purpose...

back again to topic, "what if your friend is dating.." is stupidity of those translators. They didn't understand that Yuko and Reiko are not friends

FouLu wrote:

There are no army of Megas enemies till after Gillian's death. If there where enemies that where from megas army then the rogles troops would be fighting them.
I believe that in all Valis games your fighting the minions of the boss of the stage not just random enemies. Of course this could mean that he's under Gillian. However he has a title plus name like all the other bosses do. So that nixes that for me.

you got a point! you're right I also think that all monsters before Gillan are loyal to Rogles

so, adding Necrodepto they become 13! even if we take out Gaias, Toe and Heizen, they become 10

I think when you said that all subbosses before Gillan are generals is true.

but you know what? I have a feeling that "Rogles' 12 generals" is a random number by the producers

FouLu wrote:

I want to say that Stinger is a general to because well.... he looks like one don't you think? He'd be a Megas general if he was one though.

Stinger is a very strong subboss
I agree that it's the laziness of programmers to make some subbosses appear more than once, but, I don't think the programmers will make a big mistake of making a unique character (like a general or special subboss) appear more than once. in other words, Stinger & Arufe are just strong common monsters <--- I hate saying this, because I LOVE how they look like but that's the only option left to admit

Ah, crap. This is getting complicated.
My fanfic is definitely not going to go by the game's confusing storyline exactly. I just want to finish that first darn chapter!!!

I told you since the beginning Zeloz

I told you that the first 6 generals from Valis 1 is absolutely correct, and you may add Zaluga & Gillan, those 8 generals are certainly correct and are Rogles' generals.

although the argument with FouLu was very interesting and he clarified many points, but the rest of generals are skeptical, no garunetee for anything

Yeah, that is true, but it's still kinda hard trying to decipher what was supposed to be canon and what was just the translators screwing up.

And on the subject of Reiko and Yuko, I prefer to see them as friends, despite the fact that this may not be true. I don't know, it just makes the whole Yuko weeping over Reiko's death more sensible, but makes the intro seem nonsensical.

Actually, translators back then weren't really good at what they did for the most part, but hey, it's all we got for now...

Until we find someone who can actually read Japanese...

A NEW CHALLENGER HAS ARRIVED!



Yeah, after forcing myself to drudge through the first level of the PC-8801 version of Valis I, I encountered this evil not-Gyeda fiend. According to his engrish intro before the impossible boss fight, his name is "DUZZDULL", which is quite an odd name (then again, this version also referred to Rogles as "LOGLESS"). Anyway, I have reason to believe that this guy might've been one of the 12 supposed Generals of Rogles, and that there may be other bosses original to this and the similar MSX and Sharp-X1 versions that could be considered Generals. Unfortunately, "DUZZDULL" over here is quite hard to beat, thanks to crap controls and irratic flickering. I might not be able to advance beyond this point because of the game's manifold frustrations. If someone can find screenshots of the other bosses in this version, then please do so. I swear, this version was made with Masochists in mind. It makes me sad to think that this was the original version. It's almost as unplayable as Super Mario Bros. Special. Almost.

Duzzdull huh?! just bringing his name is awesome work you did he looks DREADFUL!

and as you said, being under Rogles directly is a good reason to be one of Rogles's generals. but..

I didn't play Valis the PC88 version yet (thanks for reminding me, I should play it soon ), and I didn't pass the first stage yet of the NES version

..but I noticed that the NES version have nameless bosses, they don't even look like generals, all of them <-- except Reiko

Ok, but if you're gonna play the PC88 version, expect your sanity to be compromised in more ways than one...

Speaking of Valis for the Famicom, have you seen this speedrun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hPkafx4hrs

I hear the game is nigh unplayable because of design flaws, but that doesn't seem to stop this guy...

ZeLoz (akaBill) wrote:

Ok, but if you're gonna play the PC88 version, expect your sanity to be compromised in more ways than one...

Speaking of Valis for the Famicom, have you seen this speedrun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hPkafx4hrs

I hear the game is nigh unplayable because of design flaws, but that doesn't seem to stop this guy...

It's playable. Most that try to play without a translation won't realize they have to do something after picking up the Valis Sword, which means they get stuck.

ZeLoz (akaBill) wrote:

Speaking of Valis for the Famicom, have you seen this speedrun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hPkafx4hrs

I hear the game is nigh unplayable because of design flaws, but that doesn't seem to stop this guy...

I saw this before, it's hard for me to believe that this is a player, not a BOT I mean, he really knows every little movement

WOW! This is some deep information on Valis 1&2. I don't think i can keep up!

Valis77 wrote:

WOW! This is some deep information on Valis 1&2. I don't think i can keep up!

This section gave me a headache...

But, it was very educational. :: takes notes ::

This isn't even taking account that Megas was suppose to be the rightful ruler of Vecanti but his brother Rogles and his father, King Kaiser, conspired to murder him and somehow sent him off to a different dimension.

At least, that is what I understand from the TG-16 version of Valis II.

ZeLoz (akaBill) wrote:

Ah, crap. This is getting complicated.
My fanfic is definitely not going to go by the game's confusing storyline exactly. I just want to finish that first darn chapter!!!

The storyline is suppose to be confused on purpose. As long as you get the general content across, no one will fault you for getting the generals' names wrong.

How much have you written so far anyway?