Valis & Leethus Chronology

Since we've got so many Valis warriors born from fan-fiction, I thought it'd be nice to round up as many known warriors here, and not just those who wield Valis either since Leethus is its counterpart and hence has had its share of owners too.

I'd like to separate them into two categories each as well for easier chronological organizing. Pre-Yuko and Post-Yuko for Valis and Pre-Glames and Post-Glames for Leethus. All characters added to this list will be edited into this first post. All you need to do to add your character (or someone else's) is to post here or PM me. Also, if you're submitting a character for which you don't know their place in the time-line, then it'll be categorized separately.

NOTE: Any character with a (?) by their name means it's speculative until disputed.

Pre-Yuko Valis
Seanna - First wielder; duration unknown. (Valis III PCE/TCD)
Valia(?) - Last wielder before Yuko; unknown acquisition point, passed to Yuko during the Rogles Conflict. (Valis I - unconfirmed canon)

Post-Yuko Valis
Lena - First wielder since Yuko; duration unknown. (Valis IV PCE/TCD/SNES)
Sarah - Post-Lena Era; duration unknown. (Mega Man model T 101)

Valis Unsorted
Rogles(?) - Forged a replica of Valis using the stolen Fantasm Jewel; passed on to Reiko soon after creation. (Valis I - unconfirmed canon)
Reiko Kirishima(?) - "Dark Valis Sword"; Rogles Era until death. (Valis I - unconfirmed canon)

Pre-Glames Leethus

Post-Glames Leethus
Yuko Ahso - First wielder after Glames; acquired from Glames as he died. (Valis III All Vers.)
Kenji Yanase - Unknown acquisition point; duration unknown. (ShadowBlade; current wielder)

Leethus Unsorted

seems that you should put the "current" leethus user
well, at least with the SHADOWBLADE FANFIC

But... Rogles and Reiko never haves the Leethus... Reiko's sword it's more lika an "Dark Valis sword"

agreed...
and, what about valia? we never saw her weilding the sword.
wasn't she guarding it in valhalla o somewhere?

and.. the current user of VALIS is RENA..

how sad that she broke it... OPPPPS!!!!!!!!!!

Q & A time! ^_^

Q (sorta): "seems that you should put the "current" leethus user"

A: The reason I have it set as Pre/Post-Yuko and Pre/Post-Glames is because those were the official, canonical wielders and are the most prominent. This is to avoid confusion with the time line and also to prevent two people from wielding the same sword at the same time, which would create a paradox. "Current" wielders will be listed under the corresponding Post- list with approximate times of possession. Since "current" cannot be determined, there's simply a place on the timeline for them.

Q: "But... Rogles and Reiko never haves the Leethus... scratch Reiko's sword it's more lika an "Dark Valis sword" scratch"

A: Upon further consideration, and review of the storyline, I'll remove those inclusions. It was a theory of mine, but the intro to Valis III on the Genesis explicitly states that the two swords had not met in millions of years. Instead, I'll list them both under Valis Unsorted as while what you say appears to be true, it's not the actual Valis sword. I'd wager that it was a replica Rogles forged from the stolen Fantasm Jewels that he bestowed upon Reiko. If anyone objects to that theory, feel free to do so and include your own suggestions.

Q: "and, what about valia? we never saw her weilding the sword."

A: My answer to that is simple - in order to grant Yuko the sword, she had to be in possession of it, either as a user or as a guardian thereof. There's no explicit statement that I know of that says anything about Valia using or guarding the sword, but it's the mere fact that she gave it to Yuko that means she had to have transferred ownership from herself to Yuko. Thus even if she didn't use the sword for any purposes while she owned it, it should be duly noted that she did possess the sword at one time and passed it on to Yuko.

First, I would like to apologize in advance if I might be coming off a bit snooty or anything in this reply. I just wanted to clarify things, or at least someone clarify me about this.

Anyway, as I remember correctly, the "First wielder" of Valis's name is never really given in the Turbo Duo version of Valis 3. "Seanna" is the name that Keisuke Nonohara and Shadowblade have given her for their game/fanfic, so it can't really be considered "official", unless whomever currently carries the copyrights of Valis says otherwise (sorry guys ). (Of course, I haven't played the Japanese version of Valis 3 AKA the PCE CD version, so I don't know if they had given her a name either.)

Same goes with Kenji Yanase with being "Post-Glames" wielder of Leethus...since he's not an "official" Valis character, he doesn't really count either (sadly).

Then again, I could be misinterpreting things, and this list is also referencing to Valis-Leethus wielders in Valis fan-games/fanfics, in that case I also apologize for in advance.

iannafei wrote:

"Seanna" is the name that Keisuke Nonohara and Shadowblade have given her for their game/fanfic, so it can't really be considered "official"... Same goes with Kenji Yanase with being "Post-Glames" wielder of Leethus...since he's not an "official" Valis character, he doesn't really count either (sadly).

Well, HeromanX said:

"Since we've got so many Valis warriors born from fan-fiction, I thought it'd be nice to round up as many known warriors here... All you need to do to add your character (or someone else's) is to post here or PM me."

So I think this is a list of canonical and fanmade characters.

Incidentally, ShadowBlade's "current wielder" of Leethus is Kenji, but sbcmarine81's current wielder is a guy named Adrian, and Megaman Model T 101 and Gorori have games in the works... and evilreiko is working on an animation. If those five end up with five different wielders of Leethus (which they will unless they borrow each other's characters), won't the chronology look like a mess (five "current wielders")?

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I think it might be a good idea to specify the source of each character on the timeline to avoid confusion. Also, in ShadowBlade's case it won't suffice to mark "Valis V" as the source because probably every other fan game that will come out will be called "Valis V."

What I have in mind is something like this:

Post-Glames Leethus
-official-
Yuko Ahso - First wielder after Glames; acquired from Glames as he died (Valis III, Mega Drive/Turbo Duo)
-unofficial-
Kenji Yanase - Unknown acquisition point; duration unknown. (Valis V, ShadowBlade & Keisuke Nonohara, PC, forthcoming)
X Random Character - *Insert description here* (Valis V, random fan author, insert platform here, unreleased)
X Random Character 2 - *Insert description 2 here* (Valis V, random fan author 2, insert platform here, insert release date here)

/

the concept of "PARALLEL WORLDS" could come handy in situations like this

we didn't claim VALIS as our intelectual property. he wrote a very complete story for the game and so on..

your work is so valid as our. so I think that parallel worlds could be the best answer for all

SuperSailor7 wrote:

Well, HeromanX said:

"Since we've got so many Valis warriors born from fan-fiction, I thought it'd be nice to round up as many known warriors here... All you need to do to add your character (or someone else's) is to post here or PM me."

So I think this is a list of canonical and fanmade characters.

Thanks for the clarification, SuperSailor7. I must've missed that part in HeromanX's explaination. Sorry.

(BTW, do you have a nickname you rather be called? Just asking. )

SuperSailor7 wrote:

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I think it might be a good idea to specify the source of each character on the timeline to avoid confusion. Also, in ShadowBlade's case it won't suffice to mark "Valis V" as the source because probably every other fan game that will come out will be called "Valis V."

What I have in mind is something like this:

Post-Glames Leethus
-official-
Yuko Ahso - First wielder after Glames; acquired from Glames as he died (Valis III, Mega Drive/Turbo Duo)
-unofficial-
Kenji Yanase - Unknown acquisition point; duration unknown. (Valis V, ShadowBlade & Keisuke Nonohara, PC, forthcoming)
X Random Character - *Insert description here* (Valis V, random fan author, insert platform here, unreleased)
X Random Character 2 - *Insert description 2 here* (Valis V, random fan author 2, insert platform here, insert release date here)

I think that would work, although it would be up to HeromanX on how exactly he wants to structure things (since he started this thread and all). But least there could be some note to distinguish the fanfic/fangame characters from the canonal ones.

Anyway, sorry if I caused any sort of mess. I didn't mean to insult anyone, especially Keisuke and Shadowblade.

there is no offense, ianna

as we, well, shadowblade tough a storyline post VALIS IV, I just took that storyline as a basis to continue to make stuff related to valis..

Seanna is one of those related things.
and so, a lot of things could be done..

so, it's ok to put OFFICIAL and UNOFFICIAL.
as we put in the game site: UNOFFICIAL FIGHTING GAME..

Agreed with Ero-Sennin (Keisuke ) the game and the fics (Valis V, Gaiden, Crossliner and Crossliner Helheim) are unofficial histories and not problem if the people considered Seanna Vahldimir, Kenji Yanase, Amara Himmel or the (Anti-Valis...? Ally or foe...?) Gledyss as unofficial characters (we know they're unofficial characters after all, if the people take they are good chars, that be nice )

Anyway, the "Parallel Worlds theory" always is a good way to put many characters in a same universe.

I like the parallel universes thing. That would explain how multiple people can wield the same swords at the same time and there would be no bones about whether one is "currently" wielding it or not. I could edit in the origin of the character.

Also, just to throw out some possible fan-fic material, what if at some point either or both of the swords were to break or shatter?

HeromanX wrote:

what if at some point either or both of the swords were to break or shatter?

oh my.. seems like someone can read minds (or fanfics..)
shadowblade, the ball is in your court again

Quote :

Also, just to throw out some possible fan-fic material, what if at some point either or both of the swords were to break or shatter?

Really you wanna know...?

Spoiler:

In my opinion, the swords can never break or shatter except in the following circumstances:
1. Valis is wielded by a man, and is used against a powerful woman
2. Leethus is wielded by a woman, and is used against a powerful man

Well, there is one way the sword of Valis could shatter. More or less this is my way of thinking based on the plot in Valis III. Yuko, couldn't defeat Glames, if she went up against him without the sword of Valis being fully powered first. This is just a theory mind you, but I think, that the sword of Leethus, could shatter a not fully powered sword of Valis.

Heck, towards the end of my fanfic, Sarah goes up against two very powerful guys, and the sword does come close to being shattered. Although she got a bit more beat then the sword. One of the guys, being the new wielder of Leethus, he would naturally come the closest to breaking it.

Quote :

In my opinion, the swords can never break or shatter except in the following circumstances:
1. Valis is wielded by a man, and is used against a powerful woman
2. Leethus is wielded by a woman, and is used against a powerful man

Well, we know at least two men (The first wielder of Leethus and Glames) have wield the Leethus Sword and three women (The first wielder of Valis/Seanna, Yuko, and Lena) have wield Valis, so it is quite possible that Leethus must be wielded by a man while Valis is wield by a woman. Then again, we don't know if their are any Valis wielders pre-Yuko and Post-Seanna and/or Pre-Glames and Post-Original Leethus Wielder, though.

Quote :

Well, there is one way the sword of Valis could shatter. More or less this is my way of thinking based on the plot in Valis III. Yuko, couldn't defeat Glames, if she went up against him without the sword of Valis being fully powered first. This is just a theory mind you, but I think, that the sword of Leethus, could shatter a not fully powered sword of Valis.

Hmm...
I know in Valis 3 that Valna had suggested for Yuko to have the Valis Sword powered up so that Yuko could stand a chance against Glames. However, who is to say the Leethus Sword was at full power at that point? Since it is more or less Valis's twin, it most likely got "powered up" when Valis did (hence was why Leethus was glowing and Glames sensed that Yuko had the sword "powered up"). Then again, even if the Sword of Valis did not really need to be powered up, the trip to Sutherland was neccessary anyway because it helped Yuko more or less prepare for the final battle mentally/spiritually as well as help her figure out a reason why she continues to fight.

Now, here's a couple of my "thoughts" on how Valis and Leethus could possibly shatter/be broken...

1) I know that in the instruction book of the Genesis version of Valis 1, it mentions that "Yuko has a heart balanced of yin and yang". In other words, a wielder of Valis, although they might gravitate toward good/light/Yang, they must have a balanced heart. By the same token, would a "true" wielder of Leethus, though his heart may gravitate toward evil/dark/Yin, would he have to have a heart that is even balanced as well? Could it be that Glames heart is corrupt that the power of Leethus could have been what brought the "black hole" that caused the Dark World's destruction? Okay, true, the Leethus sword didn't get destroyed during Glames clash with Yuko, but could an "unbalanced" wielder bring other kinds of destruction? Same with Valis...if a person was "absolutely good", and all the person wanted was to destroy demons/rid the world of "evil", could the power of Valis bring some form of destruction as well?

2) What if someone of evil got ahold of Valis and/or someone of good got ahold of Leethus? If the two swords would clash when in the hands of "wrong" wielders, would that cause the swords to break?

3) The wielders of the Sword of Valis have so far been Dreamlanders (well, although Yuko was raised on Earth/Reality, she is from Dreamland and Lena, it is assumed that she is from somewhere in Dreamland) while the known wielders of Leethus have been from the Dark World. Would that mean that the wielders of the two swords must be of (or at least, have partial blood) of the races listed above?

Now, I might be going off a tangent a little, but are Yuko and Valna truly full-blooded Dreamlanders? I kind of wonder if their father was actually a human, since Yuko's and Valna's eyes are "normal" compared to Valia's, which are pupiless (so are her servants too). Unless the "pupiless" thing is something that so happens to run in the royal family of Dreamland, or it is due to Valia being of an advanced age or stronger power than Yuko and Valna, or some other explaination, is it possible that "true-blooded" Dreamlanders have pupiless eyes while those who had parents that intermingled with humans don't?

Anyway, sorry for my rambling. I've been kind of musing about this stuff all day, so I thought I would finally put these thoughts down in text and find out if anyone might have any "answers" to my silly musings.

There's a lot to quote, so I'll just bold some titles and sign off on my opinions regarding them.

How could the swords break?

I would imagine that the swords could potentially break each other. As well, strong magical power could also shatter either of the two. Enough pressure could also be applied to snap the blades in half, but it would probably require more pressure than most would be able to pull off (because noticeably, Dreamland, Dark World, and Sutherland don't seem to have extremely major technological advances much like the Human World does).

Who can wield the swords?

As ianna clarified, only those with a balanced heart can wield Valis. I would imagine the the same is true for Leethus. I would like to point out that Glames was the villain most would sympathize with over any others.

Rogles wanted domination of Dreamland for power. It's questionable as to whether or not he knows of Dark World's impending doom as he leads the invasion, though his intentions were clear from the beginning.

Megas DOES know, at least in a small part, that something's up because (at least in SD) he asks Yuko to save (Dark World) after his defeat. He was direct and absolute in his methodology, however, in any attempts to avert the destruction.

Glames, on the other hand, seemed to be interested in other alternatives if they existed. Since he was informed that no other alternative was available, he then began his invasion of Dreamland. Whether he looked into alternatives because he feared Yuko's intervention or for other reasons is a bit harder to tell, but what was definitely clear was that, as any good leader should, he was looking out for the safety and future of his people as opposed to seeking further power and dominance (notice how he doesn't even speak of acquiring Valis at all, he simply talks about how he wonders if it can match his Leethus).

I also doubt that the swords are gender-specific. The trend set by canon is most likely a push to get more female heroes into the industry as well as a push for the feminist movement, despite the abuse of Telenet execs 20 years later. In over a million years of existence, I'm sure both swords have had their fair share of opposite-gender owners. As well, I would also go so far as to say that wielders aren't restricted to anyone of a given race.

What would happen if someone not worthy tried to wield the swords?

I honestly think that the swords, much like in the Zelda series, have some sort of power to dramatically increase the battle prowess of their wielders. Whether its a power blessed by gods and goddesses or a power of a great magical source, that's the major power behind the weapons. To prove this, I point to the fact that Yuko was just an ordinary school student before acquiring Valis. There is no way she'd be able to efficiently wield a sword like that instantly without some sort of boost to prowess. Those like Glames who have trained will also see a drastic improvement, perhaps to the point of god-like, but will also be able to fight effectively without the boost.

So back to the question, what would happen? I simply feel the swords wouldn't be anything more than a normal blade to them. Other magical blades would be stronger and have more appeal than Valis or Leethus would. Essentially, it's the classic legend of swords choosing their masters. If the wielder is chosen by the sword, then they can realize the full potential of the weapon. In fact, who's to say that this sort of thing hasn't occurred before in the million years of existence for either blade?

What kind of destructive power could the swords have?

It's stated in Valis III that the two swords together could destroy worlds. This also lends to my theory that they dramatically increase battle prowess, as a possessor of both swords would be so powerful in battle that it'd be nigh impossible to stop them.

That said, each sword has its own magical properties. Valis can fire projectiles and allow its user to use magic. Leethus, I'm sure, can do the same thing in a somewhat different manner.

What if someone "bad" got ahold of Valis and someone "good" got ahold of Leethus?

I'd like to think of it along the lines of X/1999 by CLAMP. Kamui is the one chosen to determine the fate of mankind and the planet. He is fated to fight his best friend in the final showdown atop Tokyo Tower, but the sword is always double-edged: he can choose to be a Dragon of Heaven and save mankind or he can choose to be a Dragon of Earth and destroy it to allow the "rebirth" of the planet. His choice also affects which side his best friend chooses, as it will oppose whichever choice he makes.

That said, a wielder of Valis can also wield Leethus and vice versa, however they'll always foil each other and the results may differ (i.e. the "good" person wielding Leethus may become corrupt and inherently "bad" whereas the person wielding Valis may become enlightened and inherently "good").

Are Yuko and Valna full-blooded Dreamlanders?

I would presume so. The reason I say it is because it seems to me that Valia is in an enlightened state. It would also stand to reason that her most trusted guards, advisors, and leaders would be similarly enlightened and thus be in a similar state. This explanation doesn't account for Valna, whom I would presume had not yet reached an enlightened state prior to the time of Valia's death.

The other theory would hold that they have Dark Worlder blood in them somewhere. This would account for the "balance" Yuko needs to wield Valis. Logically, Valna would also be able to wield Valis with this theory, but the real hindering factor would be how she was raised and the position she's forced to take up after Valia's death. I think this theory makes more sense because, though being at war with each other, it'd be a classic Romeo & Juliet story between Yuko's predecessors (whether it's with Valia or further on down the line).

Another theory would be that there was another point in time where someone was dragged from the Human World to Dreamland to wield Valis and that person shared a romantic relationship with one of the Dreamlanders (perhaps a King to a female wielder or a Queen to a male wielder). This makes some sense as it would explain why Yuko could've been placed in the Human World by Valia (or her father), but it also leaves a lot more questions than it does answers. I'd like to believe that the Human World is more or less left alone by both Dark Worlders and Dreamlanders, though it may be a rather naive assumption.

One last theory I would depart is that Yuko may have descended from a Dreamlander and a Sutherlander. This is highly improbable, but may explain the pupil-less eyes from a different perspective. It would also explain a balance of the heart because Sutherland is essentially "perfect" and thus is naturally balanced in both good and evil.

You certainly made some interesting points, HeromanX.

This stuff can help me out in my fanfic. Sort of on how Sarah is able to wield the Sword of Valis, even though she isn't from the Earth where the Dream World and Dark World exist. Her sense of nobility, justice, and the understanding of good and evil, which her parents taught her, are what helped her pick up the sword from it's resting place.

It more or less saw her, as someone worthy enough to wield it, along with some of it's powers. Sort of similar to the plot device in Castlevania, Portrait of Ruin, on how Johnathon was able to wield the Vampire Killer at full power, was to deem himself worthy by beating the whip's memory, which was of Richter, the last Belmont who used the whip at the time.

Although the sword didn't have Sarah fight it's memory, it still compared her with Yuko and Lena, and where she stood in the world, by looking into her memories.

EDIT

I sort of forgot to mention, that the Sword of Valis had a bit of a learning curve to it for Sarah, as she wounded up sing certain attacks, when she didn't want too. So in a way, the ghost of Reiko, which I mentioned in my preview, helps Sarah learn what it can do.

I always thought that Valia's pupil-less eyes were a result of her being some sort of god or powerful cleric... which was then completely reversed in Valis 2 for some stupid reason.

ssfsx17 wrote:

I always thought that Valia's pupil-less eyes were a result of her being some sort of god or powerful cleric... which was then completely reversed in Valis 2 for some stupid reason.

Didn't Leigh also had no pupils in her eyes? I always thought it was interesting since it meant that maybe Leigh was from the Dreamworld, then banished to Vecanti without some sort of backstory.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/4/44452/1064532-valiaportrait_super.jpg

I can't find anything on Leigh on hand. Anyone have anything for her?

It's very possible that Leigh's from the Dreamworld, now that you mention it. Whether she was brought there of her own will or exiled by Valia or Valna, I don't know. There isn't really much to her other than she's Glames' advisor. We don't see her after a certain point in the game, so could it be presumed that she escaped the Dark World with other denizens?

Anyway, I think you're onto something, Yuko. Leigh's a character that hasn't been given much life by either the creators or the fans.

the producers erased Leigh's part, or never make it. If I'm not mistaken, she's the (supposed to be) final boss in Valis 3 (but seems like the producers changed the story while making it to make it shorter or something alike )

this can help (also read iannafei's comment):
https://valisfantasmsoldiers.forumotion.com/valis-f3/hidden-stuff-in-valis-game-files-t115.htm#2342

evilReiko wrote:

the producers erased Leigh's part, or never make it. If I'm not mistaken, she's the (supposed to be) final boss in Valis 3 (but seems like the producers changed the story while making it to make it shorter or something alike )

this can help (also read iannafei's comment):
https://valisfantasmsoldiers.forumotion.com/valis-f3/hidden-stuff-in-valis-game-files-t115.htm#2342

Arghhh, Japan! Really, we need someone that can translate Japanese into English for Valis I, II and III for PC-E.

Miss Blue. -.-

Well, you can find Valis II and III for TurboGrafx (I mean, english versions) Valis I and IV are the only japanese games.

Shadow Blade wrote:

Well, you can find Valis II and III for TurboGrafx (I mean, english versions) Valis I and IV are the only japanese games.

But Valis II and Valis III have the source material and hidden scripts. I mean, I could write a fan-fic using II and III from the TG-16, which I have but there is some stuff that needs to be translated from the PC versions of II and III.

Only for the sake of being accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqiZSirnOgk

An interesting note on Valis II at 5:38 & 6:05. @ 5:38 we clearly see Yuko with Leethus and @ 6:05 we get a better look at it, although we see it from the back side. So Yuko has owned Leethus two times (one here the other at the end of Valis III) then somehow Glames managed somehow to get his hands on it afterwards .